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Old 22-09-2011, 12:22   #16
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Re: Which Is Better ? Good-Used or Cheap-New VHF ?

A 10 y.o. unit will likely lack DSC.

Get the new thing.

b.
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Old 22-09-2011, 13:11   #17
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Re: Which Is Better ? Good-Used or Cheap-New VHF ?

old electronics are generally inferior to new, Thats the way the technology does

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Old 22-09-2011, 17:38   #18
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Re: Which Is Better ? Good-Used or Cheap-New VHF ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feral Cement View Post
I talked with the cruisers in my area with the most nm under their keels and the concensus opinion was to put the extra $$$ into OTHER safety equipment, specifically an epirb.

Everything's a compromise.

John

OK, well. that's just idiotic.

A VHF radio is used EVERY DAY. you can ask about weather, or where the fish are biting. You can summon help from the CG as well as EVERYONE around you. You can call a towboat. beg for gas, negotiate passing another vessel. All manner of things.

An EPIRB can only be triggered in a dire emergency. It will generate a very big response, law enforcement are legally required to find out why it was set off.

And lastly, a decent PLB is $250 a full blown epirb is $900. and they have a 5 year life span. So saving $35 seems quite a bit like penny saved pound foolish.
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Old 25-09-2011, 12:34   #19
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Re: Which Is Better ? Good-Used or Cheap-New VHF ?

A marine mobile service identity (MMSI) is associated with a vessel, not with a radio. Why would I give up my MMSI when I got a new radio?
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Old 25-09-2011, 13:14   #20
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Re: Which Is Better ? Good-Used or Cheap-New VHF ?

Suppose you just took the option to "update MMSI info". Get the old sign-in information from the PO, assumng they did register it, and then update everything--including the user name and address.

Or won't the system allow that?
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Old 25-09-2011, 13:51   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by continuouswave
A marine mobile service identity (MMSI) is associated with a vessel, not with a radio. Why would I give up my MMSI when I got a new radio?
Not what I said. If you sell the boat they tell you to do this. I don't make the rules I just read them. Typically MMSI #s can be entered once. As for getting the info from the PO it appears no. When I update info I can change all but the name.

From BoatUS: http://www.boatus.com/MMSI/default.asp

Is the MMSI unique to the boat owner or does it stay with the boat and radio?

The MMSI stays with the radio which it is programmed into.

If you sell the boat but keep the radio, you can update with the new boat information in the Edit Registration Screen.
If you sell the boat with the radio, you must cancel your MMSI registration to avoid having the distress linked to you and your personal information should the new owner fail to reprogram the radio or request that the MMSI be transferred over to them.
If you kept the boat but have traded or replaced the radio which was programmed, you must cancel your MMSI registration for the same reason stated above.
If you obtained a second radio to go on board the same boat, you may program the same MMSI number into that radio.
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Old 25-09-2011, 18:18   #22
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Re: Which Is Better ? Good-Used or Cheap-New VHF ?

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Is the MMSI unique to the boat owner or does it stay with the boat and radio?

The MMSI stays with the radio which it is programmed into.
I dont know what Boat/US is on, but thats seriously errorenous from an International perspective, The ITU database rules are teh defining ones IMHO.

Firslty The MMSI belongs to the vessel, its it call sign. It is set out in its Ships Radio License.

If the owner of a vessel changes, then you dont reprogram the MMSI, you merely submit a change of owner information and the ITU updates its database.

Hence you never "bring" your MMSI with you.

You only need to get your MMSI reprogrammed if you actually physically move the radio, because as stated the MMSI belongs to the vessel.

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If you obtained a second radio to go on board the same boat, you may program the same MMSI number into that radio.
Yes thats correct , but there is all sorts of confusion over DSC capable Handhelds that are in effect being moved from boat to boat.

The other thing that very many people dont realise is that the Emergency Distress Button on DSC radios, will not work unless an MMSI is programmed in, and many are not.,

Dave
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Old 25-09-2011, 18:27   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I dont know what Boat/US is on, but thats seriously errorenous from an International perspective, The ITU database rules are teh defining ones IMHO.

Firslty The MMSI belongs to the vessel, its it call sign. It is set out in its Ships Radio License.

If the owner of a vessel changes, then you dont reprogram the MMSI, you merely submit a change of owner information and the ITU updates its database.

Hence you never "bring" your MMSI with you.

You only need to get your MMSI reprogrammed if you actually physically move the radio, because as stated the MMSI belongs to the vessel.

Yes thats correct , but there is all sorts of confusion over DSC capable Handhelds that are in effect being moved from boat to boat.

The other thing that very many people dont realise is that the Emergency Distress Button on DSC radios, will not work unless an MMSI is programmed in, and many are not.,

Dave
I found this blurb...

"If you’re staying within US waters, you can get an MMSI from BoatUS http://www.boatus.com/mmsi/ or SeaTow http://www.seatow.com/boatingsafety/mmsiinfo.htm. Note that these numbers are not registered with the ITU, so if you are in distress with your vessel in another country, the local rescue authorities won’t be able to look up your details when your call comes in. "

Perhaps that is the disconnect?
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Old 25-09-2011, 18:36   #24
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Re: Which Is Better ? Good-Used or Cheap-New VHF ?

well yes , Ive commented before on the nonsense that the Boat/US MMSI system is.

Dave
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Old 25-09-2011, 19:17   #25
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Re: Which Is Better ? Good-Used or Cheap-New VHF ?

i would have no problem using a good working one already on the boat, dsc or not. but buying? NEW. it's one of the cheapest things you can buy for a boat!
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Old 25-09-2011, 19:19   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow
well yes , Ive commented before on the nonsense that the Boat/US MMSI system is.

Dave
I can't argue that but it is who issued my mmsi. Now the question on this I have regarding the FCC license. What would an international cruising couple (2 people)need license wise? If I'm reading it correctly a ship license and restricted license? This stuff is anything but obvious. SC
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Old 25-09-2011, 19:28   #27
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Re: Which Is Better ? Good-Used or Cheap-New VHF ?

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... What would an international cruising couple (2 people)need license wise? If I'm reading it correctly a ship license and restricted license? This stuff is anything but obvious. SC
If you are American, you can get a SHIP STATION LICENSE from the FCC for $160, good for ten years. You can also get a RESTRICTED RADIOTELEPHONE OPERATOR PERMIT from the FCC for $60, good for life.

I recently obtained an FCC SHIP STATION LICENSE and described the process in an article at

FCC License - Moderated Discussion Areas

If you are not American, check with your country's radio licensing authority.
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Old 25-09-2011, 19:36   #28
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Re: Which Is Better ? Good-Used or Cheap-New VHF ?

Quote:
If you are not American, check with your country's radio licensing authority.
its essentially the same in most other countries, except that usually there is an exam for the operators license. in CEPT (European Conference of Postal and Telecommunications Administrations) countries, the VHF cert is the SRC , the short range certificate, for SSB its the LRC ( long......) or a GOC ( general operators cert, good for everything, but v expensive and a week long course and tough exam). Most ships station licenses are good for life as are operators certs. Fees vary, some cheapers then the US some dearer.

The one thing is that the Boat/US system should be droped, its was a bad solution to a perceived problem. Cut the cost of the FCC license and do all of them through that system. (the US pro-rata, does not have that many leisure boaters).

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Old 25-09-2011, 19:52   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow

its essentially the same in most other countries, except that usually there is an exam for the operators license. in CEPT (European Conference of Postal and Telecommunications Administrations) countries, the VHF cert is the SRC , the short range certificate, for SSB its the LRC ( long......) or a GOC ( general operators cert, good for everything, but v expensive and a week long course and tough exam). Most ships station licenses are good for life as are operators certs. Fees vary, some cheapers then the US some dearer.

The one thing is that the Boat/US system should be droped, its was a bad solution to a perceived problem. Cut the cost of the FCC license and do all of them through that system. (the US pro-rata, does not have that many leisure boaters).

Dave
I can see the issue being significant the more I read. Reading continuouswave's link made me feel a lot better when an attorney couldn't grasp it quickly either. Looks like we'll probably do the ship and a restricted license for each. I am still puzzled why the ship license (which does appear as individual looking at the PO's info) doesn't cover that person but maybe it's a legal language thing I'm misinterpreting. (no we aren't using PO's info but we do have a record of it). Odd.
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Old 25-09-2011, 20:10   #30
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Re: Which Is Better ? Good-Used or Cheap-New VHF ?

The ships license thing confuses most people. A ships radio license, is a license for the "ship", it determines what the ship can and should carry and what obligations having a radio has. This stems from the fact that ships have compulsory fit requirements and obligations under SOLAS conventions. Ships were one of the first users of radio technology and the rules stem from there.

Operator certificates are merely a license to use teh radio, They ensure that the operator is trained to a minimum standard. Its an anomaly that the US does not require an exam as the whole point of the excercise is to ensure consistency and understanding of the rules , especially GMDSS. ( this lack of understanding is leading to a lot of problems in the US with DSC and GMDSS).

There probably is a case that for non compulsory fit vessels the operators cert and the ships license should be amalgamated as usually the owner is the operator.

note that you dont,certainly under ITU rules, need to get a ships license for each radio, teh ship has just one license which covers all radio devices on board ( including radar, sat phones, EPIRBS etc), normally you list the all off.

In the US the FCC seems to have an extraordinary convoluted apllication process, normally in the EU its a simple one page form and sometimes there isnt even a fee.

Dave
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