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Old 12-07-2012, 11:24   #16
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Re: What laptop?

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Apple make some great products, but they are often engineered so they are impossible to service- no idea about the latest range, but that seems to be a consistent and very annoying policy with Apple.
The Macbooks do need to be fully opened, that's true, but the benefit of that design is few seams, and therefore little flexing and less opportunity for contamination of the interior.

Though I have many years experience with computers and good knowledge of components, I gladly paid $40 for a tech to install my RAM on my Macbook Pro. I see it being the same way in the future.

Any laptop has extremely fragile parts inside them - little plastic dohickeys that can be broken with a touch, and are nearly impossible to fix on your own.

You can't build a hard drive out of sticks, you have to buy them from a store - and my money is on having the store tech install the parts while I'm there!
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:30   #17
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Re: What laptop?

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Originally Posted by Anzo View Post
Surprised no one has mentioned it yet, but every failure I've ever had with a computer (that I remember) had to do with the hard drive.
MacBook Pro-No hard drive.
It has a solid state drive, which has a similar failure rate to conventional hard drives. Also when an sad fails, you are unlikely to get your data back.

Make sure you are doing regular backups.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:50   #18
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Re: What laptop?

[QUOTE=ArtM;989088]The Macbooks do need to be fully opened, that's true, but the benefit of that design is few seams, and therefore little flexing and less opportunity for contamination of the interior.

Though I have many years experience with computers and good knowledge of components, I gladly paid $40 for a tech to install my RAM on my Macbook Pro. I see it being the same way in the future.

Any laptop has extremely fragile parts inside them - little plastic dohickeys that can be broken with a touch, and are nearly impossible to fix on your own.

You can't build a hard drive out of sticks, you have to buy them from a store - and my money is on havin
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:53   #19
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Re: What laptop?

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Originally Posted by ArtM View Post
The Macbooks do need to be fully opened, that's true, but the benefit of that design is few seams, and therefore little flexing and less opportunity for contamination of the interior.

Though I have many years experience with computers and good knowledge of components, I gladly paid $40 for a tech to install my RAM on my Macbook Pro. I see it being the same way in the future.

Any laptop has extremely fragile parts inside them - little plastic dohickeys that can be broken with a touch, and are nearly impossible to fix on your own.

You can't build a hard drive out of sticks, you have to buy them from a store - and my money is on having the store tech install the parts while I'm there!
Apple would not do hard replacment on my early iBook (outside warranty)
The labor for a professional to dismantle the computer to replace the hard drive was just not cost effective.
It was either very poor engineering or I suspect a way Apple got to sell a new laptop.
They have done a similar thing with the iPad battery.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:31   #20
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Come on, people. It's true Apple products are not the easiest to service, but they're not difficult, either. I've been servicing my own since 1984.

Apple has not built a laptop that doesn't have easy access to RAM or hard drive replacements. Yes, a screwdriver is required. Sometimes you need a special screwdriver. But if you can replace the element in your Racor, or the C02 in your life vest, you can add RAM or hard drives to any Apple products. Even the non user-serviceable batteries are replaceable. There's no reason to deal with the non-geniuses at the genius bar, unless you're under warranty.
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Old 12-07-2012, 13:11   #21
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Re: What laptop?

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Apple would not do hard replacment on my early iBook (outside warranty)
The labor for a professional to dismantle the computer to replace the hard drive was just not cost effective.
It was either very poor engineering or I suspect a way Apple got to sell a new laptop.
They have done a similar thing with the iPad battery.
I usually buy components from Best Buy. So far, no problems, but I don't know what would happen if I brought in a computer older than 5 or 6 years.
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Old 12-07-2012, 13:25   #22
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Originally Posted by ArtM

I usually buy components from Best Buy. So far, no problems, but I don't know what would happen if I brought in a computer older than 5 or 6 years.
It depends on what you need replaced. Proprietary parts are hard to come by after a while, but RAM and hard drives are easily available.

There are replacements for Apple batteries online for just about everything--including the original iPod, iPhones, laptops, and probably the iPad. Usually they come with a tool, directions, and everything needed for the repair.

Anybody who can run a boat can repair their own iDevices after a quick google or you tube search. I've repaired or upgraded dozens for my family over the years--and I usually pay less than what I would pay for gasoline to drive to the Genius Bar.
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Old 12-07-2012, 13:50   #23
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Re: What laptop?

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Apple has not built a laptop that doesn't have easy access to RAM or hard drive replacements.
Have a look at the 42 steps necessary
iBook G4 12" 800 MHz-1.2 GHz Hard Drive Replacement - iFixit
"Easy" is not the adjective that springs to mind.
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Old 12-07-2012, 14:21   #24
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Re: What laptop?

If I were on Mac, I would buy an iPad + a stand/ wireless keyboard:

- you can use it for navigation, no cables attached,
- it is easily daylight readable,
- it can be placed in a waterproof case to use in the cockpit,
- it will do anything a laptop would do,
- it is light, it can be used on the go,
- it is cool.

It will likely cost a 1/4 of the budget with the keyboard and the case. Buy two, save 50%.

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Old 12-07-2012, 14:43   #25
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Re: What laptop?

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
If I were on Mac, I would buy an iPad + a stand/ wireless keyboard:

- you can use it for navigation, no cables attached,
- it is easily daylight readable,
- it can be placed in a waterproof case to use in the cockpit,
- it will do anything a laptop would do,
- it is light, it can be used on the go,
- it is cool.

It will likely cost a 1/4 of the budget with the keyboard and the case. Buy two, save 50%.

b.
Unfortunately, as of now they don't do everything a laptop will do.

A chromepad, however, might do everything a laptop would do.

The OP is buying this initially to support a contract he's working on. He didn't say what kind of work he needs to do, but there are many business and technical functions that an iPad cannot do.
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Old 12-07-2012, 14:45   #26
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Re: What laptop?

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Have a look at the 42 steps necessary
iBook G4 12" 800 MHz-1.2 GHz Hard Drive Replacement - iFixit
"Easy" is not the adjective that springs to mind.
The step-by-step instructions seem daunting, but it's a quick and easy job once you sit down and begin. The most tedious portion of the job is reading the instructions.

I have no special training, expertise or tools. But I like to save money, I have opposable thumbs, I can operate a screwdriver, and my vision is correctable with reading glasses.

I had a G3 iBook, that I added RAM to, and upgraded the hard drive. When the power supply eventually blew, I had no need for a G3, so I tossed it, after salvaging the RAM, hard drive and optical drive.

Next I had a G4 Titanium Powerbook. I added RAM to that, and switched out the wifi antenna. When it finally drown in half a bottle of wine, I salvaged the RAM, hard drive and optical drive.

I have also upgraded RAM and either upgraded or salvaged hard drives in 4 different versions of iMacs, two versions of MacBooks, two versions of MacBook Pros, and older desktop PowerPC macs. I've also upgraded or replaced optical drives in two iMacs.

My family has every version of iPod and iPhone ever built--and all of them continue to work. I've replaced the non-replaceable batteries, screens, and I've custom made sim cards.

I've also replaced $7.00 IC chips in the power supply of my first generation HD TV that was too nice and expensive to toss out, yet didn't want to pay the $375 repair estimate to Sony. I've replaced $4.00 non-replaceable fuses in the power supplies of PlayStation 3's, thus avoiding $180 repairs.

Most people would be amazed how easy this stuff really is--and far too many people junk good stuff because the repair quotes are ridiculously high. If something breaks, Google it and you'll find someone who had the same problem and fixed it, along with links for the repair parts, and directions.

Sorry for the thread drift, but this is equally applicable to boat systems.
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Old 12-07-2012, 15:39   #27
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Re: What laptop?


Whoa, someone should throw an anchor into this thread to see if they can stop the "can't" "can to" argument...
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Old 12-07-2012, 16:05   #28
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Re: What laptop?

Since the question is specifically about a laptop, I would second the recommendation to buy a Toughbook. Also, so far only barnakiel mentioned daytime screen readability. This is another area where IMHO Toughbooks do well by design.

Personally I use a refurbished CF-18, which by today's standards is slow, but still just fine for use with OpenCPN (without OpenGL though, which is a non issue for me). Got it for silly money from an auction site with a new battery thrown in the deal.
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Old 12-07-2012, 16:49   #29
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Re: What laptop?

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Originally Posted by ArtM View Post
Unfortunately, as of now they don't do everything a laptop will do.
Sure thing.

My 'everything' was an overstatement.

Not everything. Say it will do most tasks: text/graphics editing, calculations, presentations, email, web access, etc.. Excellent choice unless a bigger hammer is required.

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Old 12-07-2012, 17:28   #30
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Re: What laptop?

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Whoa, someone should throw an anchor into this thread to see if they can stop the "can't" "can to" argument...
I don't think it's an argument. An iPad cannot edit an MS Project file, create an MS-Office Document, or be used as a software development platform. There are a host of technical features it lacks, as well.

It COULD do these things, if the software were available, and it MIGHT do these things in the future.

It's worth talking about because the iPad truly is a great device for high mobility lifestyles, and the technology is changing rapidly, so if someone knows how it "Can" do some of these things, or "will" do these things in the near future, it's worth bringing that out for everyone's benefit.

In this case, though, I don't think there's a discussion to be had. The OP has a business requirement, not a personal one. If he buys an iPad, and it doesn't meet the business needs, then he's SOL. We'd need to know his business requirements to be sure, but odds are that a tablet is simply not going to be an option for him.
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