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Old 05-04-2015, 05:40   #16
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Re: What is the advantage of GPS and Glonass?

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Originally Posted by lesterbutch View Post
I dont think you have to worry about Mr. putin or Mr. obama turning off any navigational system their military forces rely on them for navigation.

Don't be so sure. The US has an encrypted GPS signal for the exclusive use of the military. They can shut off or degrade the civilian signal(the one your using) at any time.

I imagine Mr Putin can also.
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Old 05-04-2015, 08:13   #17
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Re: What is the advantage of GPS and Glonass?

I don't know how these new consumer-grade GPS units work ... or for that matter, how much more they cost.

So ... does a GPS consumer-grade "GPS unit", use GLONASS or/and any other system only to augment the American GPS, or will these new units actually use the various types of satellites totally independent of the American GPS system?

Also, what ever calamity would cause ... say ... the American GPS system to shut down, might be the same calamity that causes ALL the systems to shut down ... at least, for consumer-grade "GPS" ... like a major war?
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Old 05-04-2015, 08:34   #18
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Re: What is the advantage of GPS and Glonass?

If a "major war" should ever happen the loss of GNSS will be the last of your worries.
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Old 05-04-2015, 08:37   #19
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Re: What is the advantage of GPS and Glonass?

[QUOTE=Opie91;1793404]Don't be so sure. The US has an encrypted GPS signal for the exclusive use of the military. They can shut off or degrade the civilian signal(the one your using)

That is correct, I dont know if you were around during the inception of Glonass and GPS, but I was. We, (the public), were stuck with Loran-C, which was extremely un-reliable. (We once missed a target by 17 NM, because we trusted it.) As to Satelite navigation we knew it was there but waited several years before the Gov. Stopped encrypting it and let it go public. And of course before electronic navigation we were using either ded-reconing or a sextant and celestial navigation. I taught and used them all. Its so much easier now, thanks to modern inovation.
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Old 05-04-2015, 09:25   #20
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Re: What is the advantage of GPS and Glonass?

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(...)

... use GLONASS or/and any other system only to augment the American GPS, or will these new units actually use the various types of satellites totally independent of the American GPS system?

(...)
The one we are buying is or/and unit. You can have it use either one of the systems (GPS or GLONASS) or you can have it use both systems simultaneously (to deliver a more accurate fix). NOTE: by accuracy we do not have to mean position accuracy but also / and /or position probability accuracy. (E.g. the circle is like 9 ft but you are likely 99.9% within its perimeter)

We will keep ours on GLONASS only as we have plenty of GPS inputs from whatever electronic garbage there is already onboard (2x GPS units, 1x USB puck, 1x GPS tablet, 1x GLONASS/GPS mobile = 5 GPS sources).

The one GLONASS we have already (Samsung mobile) does not give us any option to switch off one of the networks. This is a software thing and you can build an App that will do just that (use either/or/and).

Price about USD 90 on the mobile and about USD 150 for a marinized puck type unit.

b.
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Old 05-04-2015, 13:25   #21
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Re: What is the advantage of GPS and Glonass?

if you can't DR. You shouldn't be on the water. I've sailed the Caribbean for decades and crossed the atlantic four times, with out GPS. Ive gotten to every place I wanted to. I've had a hand held GPS for the past five years and mainly use it to mark fishing holes and dive sites. It's made me rusty on the DR front So I've put it away when cruising. electronics will make me lazy Hence not watching drift, speed, current, Land marks - when near shore - and time. I still use electronics for weather and still have to use my eyes on that too. when the electric goes thats all there is to rely on. If I practice maybe I'll live.
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Old 05-04-2015, 15:06   #22
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Re: What is the advantage of GPS and Glonass?

There has been in some of the posts an indication that if I have both GPS and Glonass I will have a smaller maximum error. For a normal navigation I don’t thing I have much use of that, but if I use the navigator as an anchor watch it would be very interesting.

That the Glonass have a better precision in the arctic area I do not have much benefits of. For this summer I have planed to sail up along the Norwegian cost to N 69°. It’s free from ice year around, so it’s not arctic.

I have read somewhere that Galileo have four satellites in function at the moment. They sends in the same frequency band and with the same system as GPS, so my old GPS receive should also be able these satellites. So if I wait some years until the Europeans got up some more of there satellites, I will not have any advantage of a receiver that can take the Glonass signal.

How you shall maintain knowledge is outside the scope of this thread.
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Old 05-04-2015, 16:42   #23
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Re: What is the advantage of GPS and Glonass?

I'm retired from surveying and used high-grade GPS on the GPS & GLONASS systems ... often turning off GLONASS when I couldn't get a fix.

I never used the Galileo but was under the impression that the sats were geo-positional and not compatible with the GPS system ... at least, not with my Topcon Hiperlites(GPS & GLONASS).
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Old 05-04-2015, 17:04   #24
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Re: What is the advantage of GPS and Glonass?

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If a "major war" should ever happen the loss of GNSS will be the last of your worries.
No kidding! One strong EMP and all those fancy electronics will only be good for sinkers!

If you cannot find your way home without them, you should probably not venture out any further than you can see land.
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Old 06-04-2015, 04:37   #25
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Re: What is the advantage of GPS and Glonass?

The various GNSS signals and systems are compatible but not identical. An older receiver designed for GPS cannot receive GLONASS.

A good source of data about the status of GNSS systems is found at

The Almanac : GPS World
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Old 06-04-2015, 06:15   #26
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Re: What is the advantage of GPS and Glonass?

GPS even without the selective bit is still more accurate than many (most?) charts (paper and electronic) are.

There is no point in having your position accurate to a few inches, if the port entrance you are aiming for is 100 feet or more away from its charted position (fairly common - even here in France).

In some places the last chart revision was done by Captain Cook in the 18th Century!
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Old 06-04-2015, 12:38   #27
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Re: What is the advantage of GPS and Glonass?

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Originally Posted by SURV69 View Post
I'm retired from surveying and used high-grade GPS on the GPS & GLONASS systems ... often turning off GLONASS when I couldn't get a fix.

I never used the Galileo but was under the impression that the sats were geo-positional and not compatible with the GPS system ... at least, not with my Topcon Hiperlites(GPS & GLONASS).
You are probably confusing Galileo with EGNOS which (like the American WAAS) is a satellite based augmentation system. If your receiver is able to receive corrction signals from WAAS it will also be able to receive the similar signals from EGNOS. Since both WAAS and EGNOS uses geostationary satellites you do need to be within the coverage area to receive their signals.

In contrast with Galileo EGNOS is fully operational.
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Old 07-04-2015, 21:14   #28
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Re: What is the advantage of GPS and Glonass?

Our Garmin GPS support GLONASS as well as GPS but I am not sure it actually uses both at the same time. It may be an 'or' option not an 'and' option.
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Old 26-05-2015, 14:33   #29
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Re: What is the advantage of GPS and Glonass?

Raymarine have a range of MFDs that now use Ublox chipset that receive both GNSS and Glonass satellite data and provide a fix using all satellites above the horizon typically this will be about 20 + satellites. These MFDs give a more accurate fix than ones using just the GNSS satellites.


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Old 27-05-2015, 02:33   #30
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Re: What is the advantage of GPS and Glonass?

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Raymarine have a range of MFDs that now use Ublox chipset that receive both GNSS and Glonass satellite data and provide a fix using all satellites above the horizon typically this will be about 20 + satellites. These MFDs give a more accurate fix than ones using just the GNSS satellites.


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Both GPS and GLONASS are GNSS systems, so substitute "GPS" for "GNSS" in the above post.
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