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Old 25-04-2012, 19:10   #1
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VHF DSC Compatibility with SSB DSE

Question: If our base-station DSC is an SSB, will a handheld VHF DSC signal trigger the SSB's DSC response? In the alternative, is there a handheld SSB DSC that is submersible or waterproof?

BV
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Old 26-04-2012, 01:49   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosque-verde
Question: If our base-station DSC is an SSB, will a handheld VHF DSC signal trigger the SSB's DSC response? In the alternative, is there a handheld SSB DSC that is submersible or waterproof?

BV
No they are on different frequencies. One is HF the other is VHF.

I know of no handheld HF ( SSB)

Dave
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Old 26-04-2012, 02:21   #3
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Re: VHF DSC Compatibility with SSB DSE

Welcome aboard Bosque-verde, you will have an opportunity here to discover all the ins and out of marine radio's plus everything else related to sailing / cruising.

Dave is on the money with his advise above.
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Old 26-04-2012, 07:04   #4
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Re: VHF DSC Compatibility with SSB DSE

BV,
1) As Dave already responded, the short answers are:
NO and NO....

2) The long answers are:
NO and NO.....
While there are "man-pak" HF radios (both commercial and ham), there are none with DSC capability that I'm aware of....

{There are some very specialized HF portable rigs that can be configured with selcal (and I believe some have imbedded ALE systems as well), these are VERY pricey, specialized units (think 10's of thousands of $$$$ per radio----you know DOD pricing }


3) The real answer is:
If you let us know what you are trying to accomplish, perhaps we can help....



Fair winds...

John
s/v Annie Laurie
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Old 27-04-2012, 09:30   #5
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Re: VHF DSC Compatibility with SSB DSE

Wow! Thanks so much for the prompt wisdom. We're trying to accomplish safety at sea: crew overboard, rendering assistance in emergency, obtaining assistance in emergency on board our sailboat, and receiving weather information, both current conditions and forecasts. We race offshore so weight and power are considerations. VHF DSC plus a way to receive current weather conditions and forecasts probably is the best way for us to go. SSB is attractive because it offers those and additional options. But it's extravagant and probably overkill. If anyone has further thoughts, we'd welcome them.

Michael
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USA 35004
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Old 28-04-2012, 04:08   #6
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Re: VHF DSC Compatibility with SSB DSE

Really depends on what waters you plan to sail on. Some parts of the world are well serviced by VHF and are definitely not.

Use the custom google search (in the pull down search menu), there are dozens of recent threads on the pros and cons of SSB, Satphone and VHF. Wade through them all and a pattern emerges!
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Old 28-04-2012, 14:59   #7
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Re: VHF DSC Compatibility with SSB DSE

Michael,
You're very welcome!

For most, I'd suggest that there is a LOT of information out there that will be of great help to you....as well as a LOT of opinions, some of which will help, and some will not.....
Have a look both here at Cruiser's Forum and at the SSCA Disc Boards...
SSCA Forum • Index page
The Seven Seas Cruising Association - IX - Home

But, with what you wrote, you're liable to be restricted to following the rules set out for you......by ISAF and/or your specific race committtee...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosque-verde View Post
We race offshore so weight and power are considerations.


From ISAF:
Quote:
Provision of GMDSS and DSC is unlikely to be mandatory for small
craft during the term of the present Special Regulations However it is
recommended that persons in charge include these facilities when
installing new equipment

3.29.1 The following shall be provided:
a) A marine radio transceiver (or if stated in the Notice of Race, an
installed satcom terminal), and
i an emergency antenna when the regular antenna depends upon
the mast.
b) When the marine radio transceiver is VHF:
i it shall have a rated output power of 25W
ii it shall have a masthead antenna, and co-axial feeder cable with
not more than 40% power loss
iii the following types and lengths of co-axial feeder cable will meet
the requirements of OSR 3.29.1 (b)(ii): (a) up to 15m (50ft) - type
RG8X ("mini 8"); (b) 15-28m (50-90ft) - type RG8U; (c) 28-43m
(90-140ft) - type 9913F (uses conventional connectors, available
from US supplier Belden); (d) 43-70m) 140-230ft - type LMR600
(uses special connectors, available from US supplier Times
Microwave).
iv it should include channel 72 (an international ship-ship channel
which, by common use, has become widely accepted as primary
choice for ocean racing yachts anywhere in the world)
v Notwthstanding OSR 3.29.1 (b) a yacht in a Category Zero race
shall have a marine VHF DSC radio in accordance with OSR
3.29.1 (b) (I) and (ii) covering all international and US marine
channels and meeting the class D specification of the ITU.
c) At least two hand-held satellite telephones, watertight or with
waterproof covers and internal batteries. When not in use each to
be stowed in a grab bag (see OSR 4.21)
d) At least two hand-held marine VHF transceivers each with min 5w
output power, watertight or with waterproof covers. When not in use
to be stowed in a grab bag (see OSR 4.21)
f) Independent of a main radio transceiver, a radio receiver capable of
receiving weather bulletins
g) It is strongly recommended that a hand-held watertight transceiver
operating on one or more aviation frequencies including 121.5MHz
should be provided. This will enable communications between the
yacht and aircraft on SAR duties, not all of which have maritime
VHF. When not in use to be stowed in a grab bag (see OSR 4.21.2)
h) A D/F (direction-finding) radio receiver operating on 121.5MHz to
take a bearing on a PLB or EPIRB, or an alternative device for
man-overboard location when each crew member has an
appropriate personal unit (see OSR 5.07);
i) An EPFS (Electronic Position-Fixing System) (e.g. GPS)
j) A Standard-C satellite terminal (GMDSS) shall be permanently
installed and permanently powered up for the duration of the race
and for which the race committee shall have polling authority.
k) An MF/HF marine SSB transceiver (GMDSS/DSC) with at least 125
watts transmitter power and frequency range from at least 1.6 to
29.9 MHz with permanently installed antenna and earth.
l) An active radar set permanently installed, with not less than 4 kW
PEP with antenna mounted at least 7 metres above the water. The
radar antenna unit shall have a maximum dimension not less than
533 mm. The radar shall be mounted so that the antenna unit
remains essentially horizontal when the yacht is heeled. Installations
in place before January 2006 shall comply as closely as possible
with OSR 3.29.(L)

m) A class A AIS

3.29.2 Yachts are reminded that no reflector, active or passive, is a guarantee
of detection or tracking by a vessel using radar.
a) The attention of persons in charge is drawn to legislation in force or
imminent affecting the territorial seas of some countries in which
the carriage of an AIS set is or will be mandatory for certain vessels
including relatively small craft.






If the above is not what you were looking for....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosque-verde View Post
VHF DSC plus a way to receive current weather conditions and forecasts probably is the best way for us to go. SSB is attractive because it offers those and additional options. But it's extravagant and probably overkill. If anyone has further thoughts, we'd welcome them.
Then please have a look at a recent post of mine, which you might find helpful.....
SSCA Forum • View topic - Tips for using an HF-SSB Radio (mostly for newcomers)

As well as follow Wotname's advice and have a look at some SSB and Weather threads here....



BTW, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but....
Just wondering who told you that an SSB is "extravagant" for offshore sailing / racing???
Because in my opinion it is not extravagant at all.....and when considering the GMDSS (especially MF/HF-DSC), in my opinion, it is actually almost a "necessity"!!!


I do hope this helps you ouyt some....

Fair winds...

John
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Old 28-04-2012, 23:24   #8
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Re: VHF DSC Compatibility with SSB DSE

John,

Forgive my use of "extravagant". You are absolutely right. After sifting through all the data and considering that our sailing will be on the US Great Lakes for the foreseeable future, I believe that we will be well served by VHF DSC. Any ocean sailing would be a different question and, I believe, necessitate SSB capability. We are looking at satellite radio and its weather options.

Thanks for all your prompt responses. This is a treasure trove of information and good will.

I'll be back.

BV
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