Vesper Marine XB-8000 AIS with NMEA WiFi

[jeffrobbins]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

The question is, what is the impact of having 2 different AIS receivers (XB-8000 and RS35) both putting data onto the NMEA 2000 bus?

Off the top of my head, I can't think of why this would cause a problem.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by colemj

If you have the RS35 connected to the bus, you will see your ownship from the Vesper on the AIS display of a chartplotter/computer.

Mark

I think this is in the 'it depends' category.

0183/N2k includes the ability to identify AIS 'own ship', hence the Vesper will/should output such on the bus. Hence, any device displaying AIS targets from the bus should not display 'own ship'. If it does, one of the devices is doing something wrong and the manufacturer needs to fix it.

[colemj]

OK. For the record then, Simrad, Furuno and Standard Horizon need to fix this issue. I think Coastal Explorer may also, but I don't remember for that.

Mark

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by colemj

OK. For the record then, Simrad, Furuno and Standard Horizon need to fix this issue. I think Coastal Explorer may also, but I don't remember for that.

Mark

Your NavNet3D is displaying 'own ship'??? I know the NN3D handles it properly, so I have to guess the AIS trans/rec. is the problem.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by DotDun

I think this is in the 'it depends' category.

0183/N2k includes the ability to identify AIS 'own ship', hence the Vesper will/should output such on the bus. Hence, any device displaying AIS targets from the bus should not display 'own ship'. If it does, one of the devices is doing something wrong and the manufacturer needs to fix it.

Just to be clear, my Vesper IS putting out !AIVDO (own ship) data over NMEA 2K. It's (correctly) not being displayed on the MFD (a Garmin 740s) as a target.

I assume the RS35, however, will see the Vesper's radio signal coming in and put out it's own NMEA 2K !AIVDM sentence.

So, the MFD will see two data sets with the same MMSI number, one !AIVDM and one !AIVDO.

In theory, it could be smart enough to figure out that these two are for the same vessel, and then recognize that one of them is calling it "own ship", data, and draw the conclusion that the other one is also "own ship."

Or it could do the dumb thing and ignore the !AIVDO data but display the !AIVDM data.

Or, again in theory, the RS35 could be smart enough to compare its own internal MMSI number to the vesper data coming in, and put it out as !AIVDO if there's a match.

It's kind of an expensive experiment to buy the RS35 to find out if either of those things are going to happen. And I have to wonder if the programming in any of these devices is advanced enough to have planned for cases like this. Seems most people have a receiver OR a transponder, not both.

Hence my question, can the AIS to NMEA 2K be turned off in the RS35?

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

Just to be clear, my Vesper IS putting out !AIVDO (own ship) data over NMEA 2K. It's (correctly) not being displayed on the MFD (a Garmin 740s) as a target.

I assume the RS35, however, will see the Vesper's radio signal coming in and put out it's own NMEA 2K !AIVDM sentence.

So, the MFD will see two data sets with the same MMSI number, one !AIVDM and one !AIVDO.

In theory, it could be smart enough to figure out that these two are for the same vessel, and then recognize that one of them is calling it "own ship", data, and draw the conclusion that the other one is also "own ship."

Or it could do the dumb thing and ignore the !AIVDO data but display the !AIVDM data.

Or, again in theory, the RS35 could be smart enough to compare its own internal MMSI number to the vesper data coming in, and put it out as !AIVDO if there's a match.

It's kind of an expensive experiment to buy the RS35 to find out if either of those things are going to happen. And I have to wonder if the programming in any of these devices is advanced enough to have planned for cases like this. Seems most people have a receiver OR a transponder, not both.

Hence my question, can the AIS to NMEA 2K be turned off in the RS35?

This implies your MFD is configured to watch 2 sources of AIS data at the same time. That's not typical in my experience. You set the source you want, if that goes away (or you don't set a source), some MFDs will automatic seek/search a (new) source and use it, but a typical MFD will not use 2 sources at the same time.

FWIW, IIRC, a long ago thread determined that SH Matrix radios with AIS receiver do recognize 'own ship' and handle it properly.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Your NavNet3D is displaying 'own ship'??? I know the NN3D handles it properly, so I have to guess the AIS trans/rec. is the problem.

This is how it works with a SH Matrix VHF/AIS, a Vesper XB8000 and a NN3D:

When the Matrix NMEA output is connected to the NN3D, the Matrix receives the Vesper signal and displays it on the NN3D as a vessel. This is even when using an antenna splitter, in which the Matrix is not connected to the antenna when the Vesper is transmitting.

When the Vesper NMEA output is connected to the NN3D, no ownship vessel is displayed on the NN3D.

So while it is true that the NN3D won't see ownship from the Matrix if the Matrix is not connected to it, or that port is turned off on the NN3D, that isn't the same thing as ignoring ownship!

The SH AIS display itself does handle ownship properly and doesn't display the Vesper output, but the radio still passes it on as a target vessel over its NMEA output.

On Panbo's recent review of the Simrad radio, this also was a problem with it. Actually, it is worse - that radio's display shows ownship also.

Mark

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by colemj

This is how it works with a SH Matrix VHF/AIS, a Vesper XB8000 and a NN3D:

When the Matrix NMEA output is connected to the NN3D, the Matrix receives the Vesper signal and displays it on the NN3D as a vessel. This is even when using an antenna splitter, in which the Matrix is not connected to the antenna when the Vesper is transmitting.

When the Vesper NMEA output is connected to the NN3D, no ownship vessel is displayed on the NN3D.

So while it is true that the NN3D won't see ownship from the Matrix if the Matrix is not connected to it, or that port is turned off on the NN3D, that isn't the same thing as ignoring ownship!

The SH AIS display itself does handle ownship properly and doesn't display the Vesper output, but the radio still passes it on as a target vessel over its NMEA output.

On Panbo's recent review of the Simrad radio, this also was a problem with it. Actually, it is worse - that radio's display shows ownship also.

Mark

That all makes sense.

My comment about NN3D handling 'own ship' correctly refers to the point that Furuno interprets the data correctly and does not display data received in 'own ship' packets.

When the Furuno is set to get AIS data from the Matrix (or apparently Simrad) and receives 'target vessel' packets that include the 'own ship' MMSI, it has no clue what 'own ship' MMSI equals, hence it has no choice but to display 'own ship' as a target vessel.

IMO, both Matrix and Simrad are improperly handling receipt of targets that include 'own ship' MMSI, they should not forward those onto the network as 'target vessel' data. Both these units are aware of 'own ship' MMSI, whereas the Furuno can only learn it from received data (which never gets sent as 'own ship' packets from either of these units).

[MooGroc]

I'm happy to see CaptTom reports that the XB-8000 plays nicely with the Garmin 740. I had read reports that Garmin didn't play well with Vesper.

I have a 740 (which I like) and plan to add a XB-8000. I also need to add a VHF with DSC and was considering an iCOM 506 w/o an AIS receiver. I believe this unit will display targets from the XB-8000 via NEMA 2k. Can anyone confirm that iCOM 506 and the XB-8000 work well together? I hope it doesn't display 'self' and that it will easily allow me to select nearby AIS targets to call.

[jeffrobbins]

Originally Posted by MooGroc

I'm happy to see CaptTom reports that the XB-8000 plays nicely with the Garmin 740. I had read reports that Garmin didn't play well with Vesper.

There was a problem that Garmin fixed in a firmware update last June. Also, we made a firmware update available that works around the Garmin problem. So either way it's no longer an issue.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by MooGroc

I'm happy to see CaptTom reports that the XB-8000 plays nicely with the Garmin 740. I had read reports that Garmin didn't play well with Vesper.

I have a 740 (which I like) and plan to add a XB-8000. I also need to add a VHF with DSC and was considering an iCOM 506 w/o an AIS receiver. I believe this unit will display targets from the XB-8000 via NEMA 2k. Can anyone confirm that iCOM 506 and the XB-8000 work well together? I hope it doesn't display 'self' and that it will easily allow me to select nearby AIS targets to call.

I'm glad it's fixed, works very well now.

I'm looking at the iCom 506 w/o AIS too. It's nice, but it costs about the same as the RS35 plus the remote wireless mic combined.

According to the manual, the 506 does accept AIS NMEA 2K input, so I assume it'll work.

I don't really like the Garmin 740s implementation of AIS targets. They put a tiny green triangle on the screen for each vessel. They're hard to see and very hard to activate by touching. And that's with the boat on the hard. On a pitching deck I imagine it'll be impossible, so you'd have to go to the AIS list screen, which is several screen taps away. I still like the Garmin, just wish they gave more thought to using AIS data.

[trantor12020]

Please advise me how to read the VSWR. On one page it shows the Orange on the VSWR radio button. So that means no so good I suppose. On next page the VSWR shows 3 Green, 3 Orange and 4 Red bars at bottom but no number or value. So what is my VSWR reading? Thanks.

[colemj]

On the iPad app, the numbers for the same display range from 1:1 on the left to 4:1 on the right. Yellow starts at 2:1 and red starts at 3:1.

It looks like you have a serious antenna/cable/connector problem.

Mark

[trantor12020]

My AIS data displayed is good. Don't know about vhf though but I do have comms issue some weeks back.
Been busy but I'll have to find some time to check through. So what number is my vswr?
Thanks for reply.

[colemj]

Your VSWR looks to be 4:1, although since it is all the way in the red, it could be greater than that.

High VSWR doesn't make much difference in receiving signals - just transmitting. So you should be able to see others just fine, while they won't be seeing you well.

Mark