Trouble with Tritons - B&G displays

[Fluer de Mer]

We purchased the complete B&G system for our 2015 Beneteau Oceanis 38 which included the Triton and two Zeus chartplotters (one for each binnacle), in addition to the Wind, Radar, VHF, and WiFi, etc.. We are experiencing lots of issues with the system including the items listed below. The boat dealer told us just yesterday that the software is the latest so they don’t believe it could be this. Just wondering if anyone has learned anything new since the last post as we are just beginning the journey and want to use info you might have to help make it a short one. We sail in and around SF Bay and are hesitant to take the boat out for a coastal or night cruise when fog might descend in and around the busy shipping lanes. The issues include:

• The autopilot alarm triggers itself ~3-5 times per day for no apparent reason – regardless of whether the AP is in use or not (we’ve turned all alarms off, but view this only as a short term solution).

• We get error messages/alarms out of the blue which include: " No active autopilot control unit", “No autopilot computer”, “No pilot control head”, “Application Data Head Missing”, “No active control unit”, “No GPS Fix”

• The cockpit binnacle chartplotter screens unexpectedly and completely freeze ~2 times per day and require us to turn the navigation instruments power off and on at the saloon electric panel to reset the system…which can take up to 30 seconds and could be dangerous in some situations (yesterday it froze as we were approaching an unfamiliar marina...but could be worse if the coastal fog had come in)

• The cockpit binnacle chartplotter units independently shut down and restart on their own out of the blue….just yesterday the port one restarted while the starboard units remained on and partially functioned

Please advise if others have had issues and resolution. Kind regards.

[tanglewood]

I can't speak to the Triton or other B&G products, but I had a whole suite of Simrad gear which is all the same except for a few feature differences. I had no end of troubles with it and Simrad was unable to resolve any of them. The installation was carefully scrutinized and passed all inspections, so it wasn't that. About 6 months after installation I removed it all and returned it to Simrad. The bottom line is that it was just loaded with bugs.

Some of the issues you mention sound similar to those I experienced, but without more detail I couldn't say for sure if they are the same symptoms/issues.

I've blogged about the details of the problems I encountered at MVTanglewood.com

[jr_spyder]

Fluer de Mer - your problems sound hauntingly familiar. I had some form of each one you mention, although the freezing/rebooting not so often. I'm happy to say that the software upgrade shipped at the end of 2013, which I didn't install until the spring of 2014, eliminated all the issues. I had a completely trouble free system throughout last season. What a relief and pleasure to have it all working properly after 2 full years of nonsense.

I should point out that all my gear was first generation Zeus and brand-new-to-market Tritons. I wasn't surprised there were some bugs but it was a bit out of hand. I did a ton of troubleshooting, network re-configuring, and a few unit swaps which seemed to have minor positive affects. But at the same time various software upgrades came out to the Triton, Pilot controller, Zeus, remote control, and more. So it's impossible to say what was really causing the improvement. At least until the fall 2013 update which did it all.

Once I got proper attention at Navico they put in a lot of time trying to help me (I went all the way to the president of North America). Most of that was troubleshooting ideas. I felt like I became the most important member of their QA department. They really tried to pin the problem on my network configuration although it completely fit within NMEA specs. I use Maretron cables and connectors, including their multiport junction box, which Navico was very suspicious of. I got Maretron involved and of course they thought this was hogwash. They also helped in a way Navico never suggested which was to run their N2KAnalyzer on my network. This was fascinating and showed how extremely chatty each B&G device is on the network, especially each of my 8 Tritons, and the potential for many conflicts. Navico never acknowledged this as a problem nor gave me any feedback on the data analysis - but their next upgrade made my problems go away...

I strongly suggest you get a hold of, and a tight grip on, a support tech at Navico over the phone. Be prepared to send them a full schematic of your system including cable lengths, power sources, etc. You may have fundamental configuration issues that need addressing regardless of what your dealer thinks is right. You have to nail that first. Then it might be a process of elimination finding a potentially bad piece of gear that is polluting your network with enough noise to cause all your failures.

I'd also recommend running the Maretron analyzer. Your dealer should be able to do it, or to do it yourself unfortunately you need Maretron's expensive N2k to USB converter on your network, then connected to a PC. I had this anyway to give nav data to PC software so I just ran the analyzer and got a complete view of the network traffic. Then a call to Maretron support really enlightened me to what I was looking at.

I'll add one disclaimer to say that all my analysis might be wrong and it wasn't a network noise problem, but some other bug that was fixed. I could never get acknowledgement of the truth. But my professional experience where I had to deal with small and huge high-throughput networks makes my suspicions very worthy.

Good luck. You'll love this gear when the problems go away.

JR

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by jr_spyder

Fluer de Mer - your problems sound hauntingly familiar. I had some form of each one you mention, although the freezing/rebooting not so often. I'm happy to say that the software upgrade shipped at the end of 2013, which I didn't install until the spring of 2014, eliminated all the issues. I had a completely trouble free system throughout last season. What a relief and pleasure to have it all working properly after 2 full years of nonsense.

I should point out that all my gear was first generation Zeus and brand-new-to-market Tritons. I wasn't surprised there were some bugs but it was a bit out of hand. I did a ton of troubleshooting, network re-configuring, and a few unit swaps which seemed to have minor positive affects. But at the same time various software upgrades came out to the Triton, Pilot controller, Zeus, remote control, and more. So it's impossible to say what was really causing the improvement. At least until the fall 2013 update which did it all.

Once I got proper attention at Navico they put in a lot of time trying to help me (I went all the way to the president of North America). Most of that was troubleshooting ideas. I felt like I became the most important member of their QA department. They really tried to pin the problem on my network configuration although it completely fit within NMEA specs. I use Maretron cables and connectors, including their multiport junction box, which Navico was very suspicious of. I got Maretron involved and of course they thought this was hogwash. They also helped in a way Navico never suggested which was to run their N2KAnalyzer on my network. This was fascinating and showed how extremely chatty each B&G device is on the network, especially each of my 8 Tritons, and the potential for many conflicts. Navico never acknowledged this as a problem nor gave me any feedback on the data analysis - but their next upgrade made my problems go away...

I strongly suggest you get a hold of, and a tight grip on, a support tech at Navico over the phone. Be prepared to send them a full schematic of your system including cable lengths, power sources, etc. You may have fundamental configuration issues that need addressing regardless of what your dealer thinks is right. You have to nail that first. Then it might be a process of elimination finding a potentially bad piece of gear that is polluting your network with enough noise to cause all your failures.

I'd also recommend running the Maretron analyzer. Your dealer should be able to do it, or to do it yourself unfortunately you need Maretron's expensive N2k to USB converter on your network, then connected to a PC. I had this anyway to give nav data to PC software so I just ran the analyzer and got a complete view of the network traffic. Then a call to Maretron support really enlightened me to what I was looking at.

I'll add one disclaimer to say that all my analysis might be wrong and it wasn't a network noise problem, but some other bug that was fixed. I could never get acknowledgement of the truth. But my professional experience where I had to deal with small and huge high-throughput networks makes my suspicions very worthy.

Good luck. You'll love this gear when the problems go away.

JR

This is very much like my experience. The equipment was incredibly buggy at first, and I had almost exactly the same faults you did, plus "no spoke data" and other radar faults, and a lot of pilot problems. Also a fatal conflict between the WiFi One module and the radar. Raspberries to Navico for releasing this equipment in this deplorable state of development, or rather, undevelopment.

I had an incredibly stupid tech support person the first time around, and finally gave up.

But recently I got just the opposite -- an incredibly intelligent and helpful person. My problems, besides buggy software versions, were mostly caused by instance conflicts on my large network.

It seems to be working very well now.

And I agree completely with jr_spyder about how great this gear is -- when it works (something I sometimes say about my Range Rover ). Even when it was working quite poorly, I still loved it. Now it seems the problems are more or less solved, touch wood.

[Fluer de Mer]

Update...
Navico has been incredibly responsive. The tech support specialist/warranty manager has jumped in (within 24 hours) and is already doing some diagnostic work with the dealer. For now they suspect it is 'a mis-mash of software onboard causing a conflict' given that I have just about everything one can order, hopefully a software upgrade/sync with all the devices on board will help. When the system works it is incredibly powerful...the sailsteer is simply brilliant as are all the overlays and split screen functionality....on long way from the days we used Loran racing around the Atlantic. I'll keep you posted. Thank you for sharing your experiences and your counsel. I will let you know how things progress. FdM

[jr_spyder]

That's great news. Please keep us posted on your progress and what you learn.

[capbillh]

FdM,
I am very interested on your progress since I have bought a new Jeanneau 409 with all B&G equipment. I will take delivery the 2nd week in April.
I have a WiFi module to install myself which I assumed was a "plug n play".
Have you looked up the versions of software/firmware of the devices? Post #55 from jr_spyder as of 15_7_2014 listed the ones that fixed his problems.

Bill

[Davidasailor]

If you have a Simrad VHF check its software version. We had the Simrad equivalent of your instruments on our 2014 Beneteau 37 and we had very similar problems to what you're describing, especially crashes and "No autopilot computer". It turns out that even after our chartplotter was updated the VHF was filling the network with garbage and causing communication errors between everything else. Updating to a radio with the latest SW version fixed everything. Note that if the software is below a certain version the only way to update it is with a special tool. Our dealer just replaced the unit rather than try to update it. Also I'd recommend that you check the software versions yourself rather than depending on the dealer's potentially outdated knowledge. You can find the latest versions on the B&G and Simrad sites.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Davidasailor]

Originally Posted by capbillh

FdM,

I am very interested on your progress since I have bought a new Jeanneau 409 with all B&G equipment. I will take delivery the 2nd week in April.

I have a WiFi module to install myself which I assumed was a "plug n play".

Have you looked up the versions of software/firmware of the devices? Post #55 from jr_spyder as of 15_7_2014 listed the ones that fixed his problems.



Bill

I added the wifi module to our system. No problems at all with the installation process. Just make sure your chartplotter is up to date beforehand and it should go smoothly.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[capbillh]

HERE IS THE A LIST OF THE LATEST VERSIONS FROM THE SITE FOR B&G> ALSO I HAVE THE B&G VHF V50.

Zues2 2.0-5.1 16-3-15

Pilot Keypad 1-4.1

Triton 2.9 22-11-13

[Fluer de Mer]

Problem seems to be solved...Dealer service guru connected me directly to Navico National Service fellow (this guy is a god when it comes to knowledge of the system) and he walked me through diagnostic via phone and things work great now….we a) updated the chartplotter software as the versions were not current (easy to do with miro card), b) Moved the chart micro-SD sim card to the ‘master’ plotter – which in our case is the starboard chartplotter, and c) turned off the AIS in the B&G VHF radio as apparently it is both redundant to the ones in the chartplotter, and is a bandwidth hog. I will keep you posted if anything comes up. Thanks everyone for your wisdom/advice...truly appreciate it. FdM

[jr_spyder]

FdM - this is great news. Glad to hear it was a painless fix. Good luck with the new boat and gear.

JR

[capbillh]

FdM,
I am confused. You mentioned that AIS is already present in the chart plotter? Do you have a separate independent AIS receiver/transponder that is feeding to the chart plotter besides the V50?
With the B&G V50 AIS turned off you are still receiving AIS "targets" on the chart plotters?

Bill

[Fluer de Mer]

If I understood the Navico head of service correctly, both the VHF and Chartplotter have independent AIS units. Said differently they are independent and redundant and can conflict on the network...and as I understand it, the VHF unit in particular is a bandwidth hog so that is the AIS he had me turn off (I still have AIS on the chartplotter). Once we turned the VHF AIS off, all the freezes and error messages stopped. Hope this helps. FdM

[Fluer de Mer]

...and yes I still see all the AIS targets and detail in the chartplotter...which is particularly useful in the San Francisco area where we get fog and heaving commercial traffic.