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Old 22-08-2015, 10:05   #76
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Re: Tired of Bugs in Navico Equipment

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Originally Posted by mstrebe View Post
RayMarine and Navico can't get NMEA certified because they use their own connector standards, and the connectors are part of the standard. They've given that up and don't use the trademarked terms, which is why they've both named their networks something proprietary even though they're N2K compliant above the physical layer.
This is still true for Raymarine, but Navico uses standard micro-c connectors, and they only use the term "simnet" anymore to refer to connecting to older systems (similar to how Raymarine uses the term "Seatalk 1".

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Old 22-08-2015, 12:44   #77
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Re: Tired of Bugs in Navico Equipment

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You're right again, I'm just a simpleton who has somehow managed to sail from England, down and around to Balearics off Spain, then over to Italy, then up and down Corsica and Sardinia. Also, up and down the coast of California. How do us idiots do it? Amazing luck using only an iPad... Just like the two delivery crews and skippers used when they delivered our boat to Guernsey. Those two guys with over 300,000 miles of combined experience between them. Imagine how lucky they were to navigate with only a mini PC and iPad.

Dumb luck I guess. ;-)

Ken

BTW: Dockhead is doing the same type of cruising as we are.
I was on a fairly large government owned vessel servicing various offshore islands and they used a laptop in the bridge with a suitable program and antenna. The professional captain told me it was better than a chartplotter. Especially as it has a large screen and is multifunctional. An excursion ferry I travelled on recently used an iPad as a chartplotter.

I use a chartplotter plus an inside mounted iPad for my simple needs. The iPad draws a course traveled and location on a standard marine chart and the plotter much smaller shows the usual heading etc.

You can get a waterproof iPad case if you want. I imagine there will be more and more to come out of iPads in the future.

Commercial aircraft are using them for flight checks and now they save all their flight manuals on them to tell crew what to do when all four engines cut out etc.
There is a significant weight and fuel saving on each plane on each flight that adds up across an airline.
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Old 22-08-2015, 21:55   #78
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Re: Tired of Bugs in Navico Equipment

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I've been allowing myself to fantasize a little about building a new boat, a fantasy which might never be realized, but one can dream, right?

When I got to electronics in my thoughts about how to specify it, I realized that I probably wouldn't go with Navico again. Something which surprised me, since I have loved this gear despite the problems with it.

The whole idea and functionality of the Zeus plotters and Triton MFDs is fantastic, but I have had to learn to leave with constant bugs and glitches, and why should I? My system is better now than it was, but I still have constant problems with the pilot keypad -- it crashes at least every few days. The plotters crash from time to time; the non-touch Zeus RELIABLY crashes when you shut it down. The pilot gets confused. The worst thing lately has been a lag in display of project course line, which eliminates the useful of the plotter for close maneuvering.

I'm just tired of it -- it's obviously not engineered and developed to standards of critical use equipment, however great it is in so many other ways.

I think it will be back to Ray, or over to Furuno, next time around.

My last Raymarine plotter, from the Pathfinder era, never crashed once during my ownership of it. Not one malfunction or glitch of any kind. It worked like military hardware, and that's the way crucial navigation instruments should work.
I got to thinking about your original post again, and I think I'd go mostly RayMarine if I were doing a new system today, with a few Maretron devices to fill in the gaps. I like Garmin well enough, but the charts and chart pricing are not great and they don't have a completely fleshed out line of autopilots. Mind you I have nothing bad to say about Garmin and I like their standard NMEA2000 compliance, but RayMarine beats them on tech support, innovation, and product quality IMHO.

I currently own two two boats, one with a Garmin/RayMarine/Maretron network and the other is all Navico, so I'm up-to-the-minute familiar with all of them.

RayMarine's current crop of autopilots are second-to-none. The 9-axis sensors are phenomenal, and they do by far the best job of steadying the boat in uneven seas, not just piloting to a heading. The difference in sea comfort for my 26' in F2 and F3 seas is hard to overstate on my EV-100. I've got it linked to a Garmin chart-plotter and they work just fine together.

I definitely like the B&G chart-plotter's "sail-steer" screen a lot, but the bugs and the so-so integrated autopilot aren't worth the hassle in my opinion. I also don't like having to buy all new hardware just to get the latest firmware when my Zeus T7 is only two years old.

I really like the Maretron WSO100 wind instrument on my 26' a lot better than the typical whirlybird anemometer. It's more accurate, faster responding to changes, and solid-state. I did have a physical failure issue with mine and Maretron replaced it no questions asked. I'll be using their tank senders and Yanmar harness in the future on my Navico boat as well, but I don't like having to buy at least one of their MSDs just to perform configuration.

Raymarine support has also been great. I wanted to integrate a 3rd party autopilot wireless controller for iPhones to the autopilot, and they told me exactly which parts to buy to do it--Turns out all I needed was their SeaTalk to SeaTalkNG converter, and it did all the code conversion from NMEA0183 TO NMEA2000 as well, and everything worked just fine.
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Old 23-08-2015, 05:34   #79
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Re: Tired of Bugs in Navico Equipment

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Originally Posted by mstrebe View Post
I really like the Maretron WSO100 wind instrument on my 26' a lot better than the typical whirlybird anemometer. It's more accurate, faster responding to changes, and solid-state. I did have a physical failure issue with mine and Maretron replaced it no questions asked.
What was the failure?

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Old 23-08-2015, 20:30   #80
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Re: Tired of Bugs in Navico Equipment

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I'm curious, what do you do when you're 30 miles offshore without a cell signal or wifi connection to be had and your iPad has no positional reference?
You buy a cellular iPad like the one in my hand but buy it before you go 30 miles offshore. The cellular unlike the WiFi only iPad has a very reliable accurate GPS built in. It can also use known WiFi and cell tower signals in conjunction with its GPS.

Without any of those available the GPS location is still as reliable and accurate as a chartplotter, and it doesn't need a SIM card for the GPS to operate.

I use mine sailing and have a program with all my usual charts saved offline and it is very accurate and of course you can zoom into a chart. I also use a chart plotter. They complement each other. I had the plotter first otherwise I might have decided on a couple of iPads.

I also have paper charts and the iPad reads with the same accuracy as the plotter.

I do much the same on the road and use Maps.Me which are pre saved and offline. We drove 3,000 miles around Northern California into Death Valley and back over the Tioga Pass and Yosemite etc etc this time last year and it was absolutely accurate on saved offline maps all the time. I also used a TomTom. If I wanted I could install a TomTom app in the iPad. One of the beauties of an iPad that you can set it up the way you want.

You do need a source of power to keep it going as with any GPS. At times when our outside temperature was hovering close to 100*f both the TomTom and iPad had charging caution messages, being on the dashboard and windshield. They never missed a beat though. If they get too hot the charging is reduced on either.

Next week we'll start driving around the various national parks in Utah for 8 days using the same combination including paper maps.

For WiFi only iPads you can buy a BadElf GPS attachment that I have no experience with but reviews suggest the cellular iPad GPS is just as good and slightly cheaper in the end I understand.

I do though imagine that the reason Apple don't promote that feature is that they don't want to be blamed for somebody being lost. And it's not their core business as it is with TomTom , Garmin, etc. It is 3rd parties who supply the maps and programs for us to use.

I also have the same apps / programs on my Sony Xperia Android phone and it's GPS is just as accurate except the screen is 1/4 the size. Handy when walking.
I use it also it with Strava when I'm cycling and it plots on a map with times speeds etc recorded and is also automatically synced to the iPad. That's Android talking to iPad via the same app and they each use GPS.

Give it a try but buy the cellular iPad with as many gigs as you can afford.
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Old 24-08-2015, 12:13   #81
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Re: Tired of Bugs in Navico Equipment

Thanks - I have an iPad 4th gen and have used it a few times in addition to my chart plotter (especially when I'm not on helm) but found it often lags on updating position. Also - without wiFi or Cell signal I lose all the AIS info...
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Old 24-08-2015, 19:16   #82
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Re: Tired of Bugs in Navico Equipment

Captain Bligh I'm sure would have loved to have an iPad with off line charts and a means of charging the cellular GPS iPad.
He managed to navigate from near Tahiti was chased by Fijian warrior's through Bligh Passage, near Savu Savu then through Bligh's Entrance in Barrier Reef, around Cape York and made it to Timor in an open boat with his crew using only a sextant and his recollection of the geography of the South Pacific Islands and the Timor Sea.
As for wind instruments, the best display is from a few woollen tell-tales in the sails.
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Old 24-08-2015, 19:47   #83
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Re: Tired of Bugs in Navico Equipment

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Originally Posted by PHerzfeld View Post
Thanks - I have an iPad 4th gen and have used it a few times in addition to my chart plotter (especially when I'm not on helm) but found it often lags on updating position. Also - without wiFi or Cell signal I lose all the AIS info...
It's not the generation of iPad. It's whether it's cellular or not. Mine is an iPad Air cellular whatever generation that is. It has up to date IOS so 4 th generation only means finger print lock or not and a slightly faster processor.
If you have a sim card slot you have GPS. No sim slot no GPS.
For assisting navigation I keep it running all the time and on charge. I use off-line preloaded maps / charts. I don't see any lag other than the usual with GPS.
Any lag I see might be a concern with a jet fighter but not at 7 knots or even 60 mph.
I have a purpose built marine iPad mount inside on the chart table in my yacht. For road trips I do in USA (currently in Chicago) or in Australia I use it in conjunction with Tom-tom and it sits on the centre arm rest.
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Old 29-08-2015, 22:58   #84
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Re: Tired of Bugs in Navico Equipment

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What was the failure?



Mark

Unknown--it just went dead at about 18 months and maretron replaced it under warranty. It's replacement is now 3 years and doing fine. I suspect a random failure of an electronic component.


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Old 01-12-2015, 07:28   #85
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Re: Tired of Bugs in Navico Equipment

I started a bug track list (manual) here.
Since monthes (years) I send it reguraliy to Navico. No answers , no updates, no bug solved. About 20 reported bugs since I use them. Most of them are stupid, some annoyance (depth alarm).

SIMRAD Bugs or features ?

I help many people around with other brands (such as Ray garmin...) same kind of problems ... Not worse not better BUT we have much more answers (online) for Raymarine !
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Old 07-12-2015, 14:54   #86
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Re: Tired of Bugs in Navico Equipment

There is a good article and discussion over on Panbo regarding Navico's implementation of MARPA, it's (possible) short comings, comparison with other vendors, and a general good discussion on the merits of (M)ARPA. I think there are some here who may be able to add their experiences to the discussion. All in all, a lot of information relevant to this thread.
Panbo article on Navico's MARPA
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Old 08-12-2015, 03:21   #87
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Re: Tired of Bugs in Navico Equipment

Thanks, Im a Panboo reader as well.
BTW MARPA (Manual Automatic RADAR Plotting Aid) is a very specific topic (software tool designed for RADAR users)... Navico global lack of support is a huge problem to all parts not Radar specific.
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Old 12-12-2015, 02:52   #88
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Re: Tired of Bugs in Navico Equipment

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Originally Posted by Saltyhog View Post
There is a good article and discussion over on Panbo regarding Navico's implementation of MARPA, it's (possible) short comings, comparison with other vendors, and a general good discussion on the merits of (M)ARPA. I think there are some here who may be able to add their experiences to the discussion. All in all, a lot of information relevant to this thread.
Panbo article on Navico's MARPA
A very interesting article!

Here's a quote:

"Does Navico 4G radar (branded as Simrad, Lowrance, or B&G) have a "ridiculously broken MARPA" function? I've heard similar words from three different 4G owners in the last few weeks, and that's enough to interrupt the boat show and summer testing entries I'm way behind on. I don't have a definitive answer, however, plus I'm skeptical that Navico's MARPA is especially bad because in my experience all small radar Mini Automatic Radar Plotting Aids are somewhat flaky for what seem like fairly obvious reasons..."
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Old 12-12-2015, 04:58   #89
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Re: Tired of Bugs in Navico Equipment

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A very interesting article!

Here's a quote:

"Does Navico 4G radar (branded as Simrad, Lowrance, or B&G) have a "ridiculously broken MARPA" function? I've heard similar words from three different 4G owners in the last few weeks, and that's enough to interrupt the boat show and summer testing entries I'm way behind on. I don't have a definitive answer, however, plus I'm skeptical that Navico's MARPA is especially bad because in my experience all small radar Mini Automatic Radar Plotting Aids are somewhat flaky for what seem like fairly obvious reasons..."
The answer to the headline question "Does Navico 4G radar (branded as Simrad, Lowrance, or B&G) have a "ridiculously broken MARPA" function?", is Yes after you read through the comments in the article.

You will find that those "obvious reasons" are completely invalid and that being "small" does not in any way handicap a radar's ability to perform MARPA. Furuno's small radars prove that, delivering excellent MARPA performance, and performance comparable to their larger radars.
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Old 12-12-2015, 05:36   #90
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Re: Tired of Bugs in Navico Equipment

Yes, I recently read that article and was shaking my head at the loads of "facts" that were being dumped in it. Ben was WAY off his rocker in that thread - very unusual for him. I think his problem was that he has almost no experience using MARPA on different units other than turning it on once or twice over the past 20yrs on a couple of old units. And he conflated that limited experience with MARPA with his vast experience in electronics in general.

In contrast, our only experience with MARPA is on our current Furuno NN3D/4kW unit - and I just assumed MARPA worked perfectly and easily on all radars. Just the very opposite experience of Ben's, but because of the very same amount of "research"!

For example, he states that no MARPA will show stationary targets as such. Ours regularly tracks targets (buoys, anchored boats, etc) that don't move at all. Well, maybe every once in a while it shows the target moving 0.1kts or so in a random direction for a sweep or two, but this is easily understood to be stationary and not a ship moving very slowly in random directions for a few feet at a time.

When it locks an AIS target, it exactly follows the AIS information to within 5% or so (ie, 20kts may show between 19-21kts, course may deviate around 1-2*). And it does this in heavy seas with our boat slewing around.

Unlike in the article, ours easily locks onto targets up to 16nm away (the limit of the radar software) - not the 1-2nm shown in the examples of others. I can't imagine a situation where 1-2nm minimum for MARPA is even useful.

So MY experience with small radar MARPA is that they are NOT flakey, and I don't see any obvious reasons why they would be. We find MARPA to be our most used radar function and it is in use pretty much every time the radar is on. Our previous radar did not have this functionality, and we are hooked on it now.

If it doesn't perform like I describe above, then I do think MARPA is ridiculously broken on that unit.

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