Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 14-02-2013, 18:42   #1
TOM
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: On our yacht Byamee
Boat: Footloose 40 steel cutter
Posts: 316
Images: 1
Tiller Pilot on Windvane.

Is there anyone using a tiller pilot on a windvane. I have a Cape Horn windvane but would be interested in hearing about anyone using the above on any type of vane. Especially looking for a way to pilot the boat under motor or very light winds.

www.byamee.com
__________________

__________________
TOM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2013, 22:31   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOM View Post
Is there anyone using a tiller pilot on a windvane. I have a Cape Horn windvane but would be interested in hearing about anyone using the above on any type of vane. Especially looking for a way to pilot the boat under motor or very light winds.

www.byamee.com
Our boat, s/v Tillie, a Hans Christian 38 has a ST 1000+ installed along with the Cape Horn. The mechanics are all there, but the PO never did complete the installation. It is very well engineered and I see no reason why it should not work. I aim to connect it and sea trial it sometime soon. I have been plagued with troubles with the Cape Horn. Today I sailed from San Diego out a few miles with the intention of fixing the Cape Horn friction problem, but alas, my darling other half decided to steer the boat through a kelp bed with the Cape Horn steering oar down. I can confirm that the safety release works and having a tether attached is essential, but putting the oar back in position whilst at sea is a daunting task. Not possible on our boat without going over the side. So I left the re-attachment until back at the dock.

Since the Cape Horn is designed for use with a tiller autopilot it should work well. The problem being is that the autopilot itself is installed in the lazzeret so course adjustment could be a pain. I have a Raymarine remote attachment which I aim to install in a convenient place in the cockpit.
__________________

__________________
bazzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2013, 23:37   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
Ocean Girl's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: In transit ( Texas to wherever the wind blows us)
Boat: Pacific Seacraft a Crealock 34
Posts: 4,115
Images: 2
Re: Tiller Pilot on Windvane.

I've been doing some research for our monitor, which is quite different but maybe these pics will help


__________________
Mrs. Rain Dog~Ocean Girl
https://raindogps34.wordpress.com
Ocean Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 00:07   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
Ocean Girl's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: In transit ( Texas to wherever the wind blows us)
Boat: Pacific Seacraft a Crealock 34
Posts: 4,115
Images: 2
Re: Tiller Pilot on Windvane.

Also found this blog, he connect the tiller pilot to his helm. This allows the autohelm tiller pilot to use its top mast wind vane, which is more sensitive in light winds. Well he explains it better.
Papers have beeen Submitted | SV Dawn Treader's Adventures

I have more examples of this, if your interested.
__________________
Mrs. Rain Dog~Ocean Girl
https://raindogps34.wordpress.com
Ocean Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 00:34   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,016
Images: 4
Re: Tiller Pilot on Windvane.

The usual technique is to connect the tiller pilot in place of the wind vane. Removing the windvane itself. Principally to save power or steer a boat that exceeds the capacity of the tiller pilot. Or perhaps while motoring.
__________________
daddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 11:07   #6
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,572
Re: Tiller Pilot on Windvane.

Not entirely true. The old Autohelm 1000s had (and have, as I use one) a "vane" setting. As far as I know, it's a good way to run in flat water, and here's a potential set-up:

http://www.selfsteer.com/faqs/faq.php?ID=134

And here's an interesting thread on the topic:

http://forum.ssca.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9153
__________________
Can't sleep? Read www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com for fast relief. Can't read? Avoid www.volumesofsalt.blogspot.com, because it's just personal reviews of sea books.
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 12:12   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably in an anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 3,537
Re: Tiller Pilot on Windvane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daddle View Post
The usual technique is to connect the tiller pilot in place of the wind vane. Removing the windvane itself. Principally to save power or steer a boat that exceeds the capacity of the tiller pilot. Or perhaps while motoring.
Not knowing there was a usual technique, I've lashed my st2000 and aries together with tie wraps and string before, with the autopilot arm attached to the vane counterweight. Worked fine, a few days motoring offshore.
__________________
conachair is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 18:33   #8
TOM
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: On our yacht Byamee
Boat: Footloose 40 steel cutter
Posts: 316
Images: 1
Re: Tiller Pilot on Windvane.

Thankyou Ocean Girl and Alchemy ,this is the sort of info i was looking for. I want to mount the tiller pilot in the lazerette as per the pic oean girl sent however as i have a steel boat i was wondering if this will effect the built in compass on the tillerpilot ...anty thoughts?
__________________
TOM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 18:55   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: Tiller Pilot on Windvane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean Girl View Post
I've been doing some research for our monitor, which is quite different but maybe these pics will help
I contacted Selfsteer (Monitor) and they wouldn't respond. They probably know but want to keep it to themselves.

I just need to sit down and do the math b/c it's an economical way (electrically) of having an autopilot in light air. I've noticed that in winds over 20 kt I/this boat has to reduce sails/reef for the monitor to still work.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 23:24   #10
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,572
Re: Tiller Pilot on Windvane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOM View Post
Thankyou Ocean Girl and Alchemy ,this is the sort of info i was looking for. I want to mount the tiller pilot in the lazerette as per the pic oean girl sent however as i have a steel boat i was wondering if this will effect the built in compass on the tillerpilot ...anty thoughts?
Yes, it will screw it up. The tillerpilot may not be capable of receiving a data stream from your fluxgate compass...you have one, right?...to both provide a proper heading and to override the tillerpilot's internal compas, which is going to read God knows what back there.
__________________
Can't sleep? Read www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com for fast relief. Can't read? Avoid www.volumesofsalt.blogspot.com, because it's just personal reviews of sea books.
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 01:57   #11
Registered User
 
Tomm0's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Melbourne, australia
Boat: Joubert Koala 24
Posts: 114
I have a rotovecta windvane/guage on the masthead and it is wired to my raymarine 1000 autohelm, which then does windvane steering instead of just directional... It's not rocket science. It's a poor mans windvane steering really, given that I wanted an autopilot either way... 2k for proper windvane steering or 350 for the rotovecta...
Uses power, yes, but I have plenty of that.
__________________
Tomm0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 09:42   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post

Yes, it will screw it up. The tillerpilot may not be capable of receiving a data stream from your fluxgate compass...you have one, right?...to both provide a proper heading and to override the tillerpilot's internal compas, which is going to read God knows what back there.
I might be wrong, but is not the compass on a tillerpilot a flux gate? Either way a compass will work fine on a steel ship but will need to be swung to be accurate. If not how do the many steel ships find their way around?
__________________
bazzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 10:54   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,431
Re: Tiller Pilot on Windvane.

I had a flux gate compass on my steel boat, and its sole purpose was to be able to mount it as far away from steel as possible and have the remote readout in the cockpit. I mounted it about 15 feet up the mast. I may be wrong, but I dont think there is any way that one would work in the lazzeret. As far as the regular ships compass went, It was a proper steel boat compass with the large compensating irons which ,when we swung the compass on Long Island Sound seemed to be fine. When we left Long Island we discovered that when the boat heeled, the compass would go up to 30 degrees off. The flux gate packed up on the second day so I lived with a terrible compass. The tiller pilots that actually take the place of the blade on a windvane will be farther away from steel on a steel boat, so I think will work much better than anything in the lazzeret. I have seen photos of the home made mounting brackets to have a tiller pilot on an Aries. A web search might turn up something.___My 2 cents worth._____Grant.
__________________
gjordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 12:11   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: Tiller Pilot on Windvane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bazzer View Post
I might be wrong, but is not the compass on a tillerpilot a flux gate? Either way a compass will work fine on a steel ship but will need to be swung to be accurate. If not how do the many steel ships find their way around?
From what I can remember from the Raymarine tiller pilots manual (4000) is the tillers themselves do not have a compass in the unit itself but rely solely on the fluxgate. The tiller either has to be mounted on port or starboard pointed broadside, and that the display has to be set to that configuration. There is a bit of a swing calibration that is programable, but for how much, there isn't any specs in the manual I can fine, in mine at least.

And according to the installation instructions for steel boats, it says to mount the fluxgate on the mast above decks.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 14:11   #15
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,572
Re: Tiller Pilot on Windvane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bazzer View Post
I might be wrong, but is not the compass on a tillerpilot a flux gate? Either way a compass will work fine on a steel ship but will need to be swung to be accurate. If not how do the many steel ships find their way around?
The compasses on most tillerpilots are indeed fluxgates, AFAIK, and they can indeed be calibrated, but proximity to large steel plates can be an issue. I have a fluxgate compass, a KVH AC103, and the sensor is well above the deck, smack in the middle of the aluminum pilothouse roof. It will require declination adjustments (or compensation in the form of corrections) when we go south.

I have a fluxgate compass in my watch. It clearly "spazzes out" below five and a half feet above the deck. Above that, even three inches above that, I can take a useful bearing at eye level (I'm just over six feet tall). Clearly, proximity to mild steel is the culprit. As I've heard of tillerpilot errors on F/G boats caused simply by being within too few feet from the engine block, I would say there are some experiments that have to be performed to see if this can work at all on some boats. There are also certain brands of tillerpilot that might be a better choice than others for a steel boat, particularly those that can take headings from a sensor well off the deck.
__________________

__________________
Can't sleep? Read www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com for fast relief. Can't read? Avoid www.volumesofsalt.blogspot.com, because it's just personal reviews of sea books.
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
windvane

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:24.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.