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Old 20-06-2014, 16:59   #271
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Re: Thoughts about AIS

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Old 20-06-2014, 18:20   #272
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Re: Thoughts about AIS

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Well I have two Zeuses, so if one goes down, the other one will still be working.

My network is almost 100% N2K, including even AIS (unlike Furuno, Navico plotters will accept AIS data over N2K), so the only data which gets passed through a plotter is boat speed.
What makes think Furuno doesn't accept AIS over N2K?

I find it interesting that you've been complaining about how Zeus represents AIS data for the whole thread, but find a redeeming feature that it works with AIS on N2K.
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Old 20-06-2014, 18:33   #273
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Re: Thoughts about AIS

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Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
What makes think Furuno doesn't accept AIS over N2K?
Our NN3D does not (which is a current product). Does the touch version? If so, why won't they bring that to NN3D?

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Old 20-06-2014, 21:03   #274
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Re: Thoughts about AIS

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Our NN3D does not (which is a current product). Does the touch version? If so, why won't they bring that to NN3D?

Mark
The TZTouch supports AIS over N2K.

It's obviously a marketing decision to not go back and put it on the NN3D, one I can certainly understand. What would be the purpose? No additional functionality, and it costs significant development dollars to do so.

If you're looking to complain about it, blame NMEA for taking way too long to develop the PGNs. Had that been done during the NN3D development, I'll bet it would have been included on the NN3D.

You wouldn't see anything different on the screen, it's the same info on 0183 as N2K.

Furuno did fix the display of class B and Sart in the latest release. And as has been discussed in this thread, the NN3D does a good job displaying COG lines, CPA, and vectors, especially compared to Zeus.
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Old 21-06-2014, 03:52   #275
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Re: Thoughts about AIS

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Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
I find it interesting that you've been complaining about how Zeus represents AIS data for the whole thread, but find a redeeming feature that it works with AIS on N2K.
I find that to be a passing strange remark! Why wouldn't the Zeus have both advantages and disadvantages? Like most things? Of course it has many positive features, otherwise I wouldn't keep it. It also has several negative features.
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Old 21-06-2014, 03:55   #276
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Re: Thoughts about AIS

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Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
Furuno did fix the display of class B and Sart in the latest release. And as has been discussed in this thread, the NN3D does a good job displaying COG lines, CPA, and vectors, especially compared to Zeus.
I must have missed that -- I thought the NN3D displayed COG lines, CPA, and vectors exactly the same was as the Zeus (and as Raymarine), is that not so? Did I miss something?

It was Vesper and OpenCPN that have different (and totally superior) ways of displaying these -- as I recall the conversation at least.
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Old 21-06-2014, 06:25   #277
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Re: Thoughts about AIS

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I must have missed that -- I thought the NN3D displayed COG lines, CPA, and vectors exactly the same was as the Zeus (and as Raymarine), is that not so? Did I miss something?

It was Vesper and OpenCPN that have different (and totally superior) ways of displaying these -- as I recall the conversation at least.
My comment is based on the fact that nobody is complaining about the Furuno display, but are about the Zeus. I don't have an opinion as I've never seen more than maybe 6 or 8 AIS targets on the screen at one time, and that's on a 10nm scale.
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Old 21-06-2014, 06:28   #278
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Re: Thoughts about AIS

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Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
My comment is based on the fact that nobody is complaining about the Furuno display, but are about the Zeus. I don't have an opinion as I've never seen more than maybe 6 or 8 AIS targets on the screen at one time, and that's on a 10nm scale.
I don't think the display is the issue. Dockhead and I have personal differences in the type of data we each feel comfortable using. It is coincidental that we have different displays.

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Old 21-06-2014, 06:31   #279
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Re: Thoughts about AIS

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I find that to be a passing strange remark! Why wouldn't the Zeus have both advantages and disadvantages? Like most things? Of course it has many positive features, otherwise I wouldn't keep it. It also has several negative features.
As did I about your original remark. I don't consider functionality in the same comparison bucket with ease of installation. There is no difference in feature/functionality/display between AIS delivered on 0183 vs N2K. Once the installation is complete, what difference does it make?
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Old 21-06-2014, 06:41   #280
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Re: Thoughts about AIS

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Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
My comment is based on the fact that nobody is complaining about the Furuno display, but are about the Zeus. I don't have an opinion as I've never seen more than maybe 6 or 8 AIS targets on the screen at one time, and that's on a 10nm scale.
I listed above shortcomings of the Furuno Navnet3D AIS display. It is at best an average AIS chartplotter display. I use the low-cost, low-power Vesper display for probably 95% of the AIS cases. It is just easier and faster to get all the AIS info I want - than diddling with the Furuno display. Why you can't get a simple target list on Navnet3D baffles me.
On a 10 miles scale, I've seen 40 or 50 AIS targets. Pacific entrance to the Panama Canal, for example.
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Old 21-06-2014, 07:16   #281
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Re: Thoughts about AIS

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Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
I listed above shortcomings of the Furuno Navnet3D AIS display. It is at best an average AIS chartplotter display. I use the low-cost, low-power Vesper display for probably 95% of the AIS cases. It is just easier and faster to get all the AIS info I want - than diddling with the Furuno display. Why you can't get a simple target list on Navnet3D baffles me.
On a 10 miles scale, I've seen 40 or 50 AIS targets. Pacific entrance to the Panama Canal, for example.
I'm curious, and yes I've seen/used the list on OpenCPN. Does the list provide any additional navigational value over looking at the display at the proper range?

My use of the list is "Oh gee, look, I can see 9 AIS targets". I don't find that especially useful in the course of navigation.

Yes, the list will tell you the closest target, in range or cpa, but won't the display tell you the same thing showing a visual proximity of the closest targets?
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Old 21-06-2014, 08:21   #282
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Re: Thoughts about AIS

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The list gives you quick access to all the info about the target. If I see 4 or 5 targets on a Navnet3D display, to get the info on the targets I need to stare at the display while moving the cursor around till the green triangle highlights. Then I select it and I can read the display info. Then I can go to the next target by moving the cursor around and trying to get a highlight select, etc. This takes time and distracts from the environment. With the list I can quickly grab the cpa/tcpa info, find out if it is class A or B, see its length (in the units that I choose), etc. I can also see the relative position at time of CPA with a one button touch. I gather all the info I want in a few seconds, instead of the either not gathering all the info off the Navnet3D or taking too much time and focus to dick with the display. When multiple targets are close to each other, it is difficult to get the target info selected on a graphic display. You may have to stop and zoom way in to get enough separation to select the target you want info on -- then of course zoom back -- all taking unnecessary time.
Don't get me wrong, I like the Navnet3D. I purchased one on my last boat and one on this boat. As I said earlier its a great Radar, a decent chartplotter but only a so-so AIS display.
The Vesper display also displays AIS info that is not displayed on the Furuno. Such as ground AIS stations and class A arrival time. Also, while the latest version of the Navnet3D supposedly added SART support, I have seen Sart AIS targets on the Vesper that did not show on the Furuno.
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Old 21-06-2014, 08:45   #283
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Re: Thoughts about AIS

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As did I about your original remark. I don't consider functionality in the same comparison bucket with ease of installation. There is no difference in feature/functionality/display between AIS delivered on 0183 vs N2K. Once the installation is complete, what difference does it make?
I don't know -- I never put it in the same "comparison bucket". I didn't say it was necessarily a big deal. I mentioned it in passing. Putting AIS over N2K is obviously more elegant on an all-N2K vessel, but not as important as how the information is displayed.
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Old 21-06-2014, 09:08   #284
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Re: Thoughts about AIS

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Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
I'm curious, and yes I've seen/used the list on OpenCPN. Does the list provide any additional navigational value over looking at the display at the proper range?

My use of the list is "Oh gee, look, I can see 9 AIS targets". I don't find that especially useful in the course of navigation.

Yes, the list will tell you the closest target, in range or cpa, but won't the display tell you the same thing showing a visual proximity of the closest targets?
In Coastal Explorer, the list is dynamic with the ships filtered by closest CPA/TPA on top. These aren't necessarily the closest ones to you. If a ship triggers your filters, the text turns red (as does the icon). Anchored and non-moving ships are a different color. Clicking on any ship in the list highlights it on the graphics.

I find it very useful and a missed feature on the NN3D.

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Old 21-06-2014, 10:59   #285
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Re: Thoughts about AIS

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DotDun
The list gives you quick access to all the info about the target. If I see 4 or 5 targets on a Navnet3D display, to get the info on the targets I need to stare at the display while moving the cursor around till the green triangle highlights. Then I select it and I can read the display info. Then I can go to the next target by moving the cursor around and trying to get a highlight select, etc. This takes time and distracts from the environment. With the list I can quickly grab the cpa/tcpa info, find out if it is class A or B, see its length (in the units that I choose), etc. I can also see the relative position at time of CPA with a one button touch. I gather all the info I want in a few seconds, instead of the either not gathering all the info off the Navnet3D or taking too much time and focus to dick with the display. When multiple targets are close to each other, it is difficult to get the target info selected on a graphic display. You may have to stop and zoom way in to get enough separation to select the target you want info on -- then of course zoom back -- all taking unnecessary time.
Don't get me wrong, I like the Navnet3D. I purchased one on my last boat and one on this boat. As I said earlier its a great Radar, a decent chartplotter but only a so-so AIS display.
The Vesper display also displays AIS info that is not displayed on the Furuno. Such as ground AIS stations and class A arrival time. Also, while the latest version of the Navnet3D supposedly added SART support, I have seen Sart AIS targets on the Vesper that did not show on the Furuno.
I now understand...
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