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Old 11-04-2017, 13:58   #1
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The extra nifty stuff I got when I bought my boat! Keep or replace?

So I now own my Hunter 28.5 (1985). It came with these electronics... not installed.
I'll be spending time in Humboldt Bay here in Northern California (and I'm talking the REAL Northern California ) until I get my skills up to a level I feel I'm ready to sail out into the big blue (with another experienced coastal sailor for starters!).
My first big trip along the coast will likely be north to Trinidad, CA, but that won't be for a while I think.
.
With that...
I was figuring it'd be fine to install this older stuff and spend my money on other more important things for the moment.
.
Raymarine A60
Raymarine DSM25
Airmar P79 Transducer
Standard Horizon Depth Sounder
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Looking for opinions from you more experienced sailors!
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Old 11-04-2017, 14:18   #2
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Re: The extra nifty stuff I got when I bought my boat! Keep or replace?

Do yourself a favor and go onto Ebay and see what that stuff is going for before you install it. For some bizarre reason, people will buy old nav/comm equipment on Bay for more than you think it's worth.

To find out what it's selling for, hit advanced search, then check "sold", then enter the brand/model and hit search. It will show you what that item has actually sold for recently, which gives you a pretty good means of evaluating what it's worth on the market.

Then go to Defender and see what a modern package goes for. They often have "last year's model" discounted in bundles.

I'm a big believer in selling nav/comm equipment before it ages to being valueless. And since your stuff is new/uninstalled, you'll get top price for it.

As an example, I just ripped a bunch of Garmin stuff out of my boat...two chart plotters, the radar, the XM weather unit, and a network hub...all of it more than 10 years old. I sold it all and ended up with more than 3/4 of the cost of a new B&G Zeus chart plotter, wifi unit, and radar. The Garmin stuff had their old proprietary card format and the charts could not even be updated, but it all sold at the prices I had expected based on the above kind of research. Crazy.

Not saying the stuff you have is no good, although I'm no fan of older Raymarine gear, but since it's basically NIB, see what's it's worth and whether you can upgrade at nominal cost.
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Old 11-04-2017, 15:27   #3
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Re: The extra nifty stuff I got when I bought my boat! Keep or replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
Do yourself a favor... see what's it's worth and whether you can upgrade at nominal cost.
And THAT'S why I ask questions I could probably answer myself!
Sure... I'd like all brand new stuff.
I'd like equipment that offers me other useful/important features the things I own don't have.
I also hate hanging on to electrical items that wind up being waste because eventually no one wants to take them off my hands... even for free!
.
Being new to Marine Electronics and their turnover rate, I wasn't sure about hanging on to these even in the nice condition they're in.
.
Thanks for the suggestion... it's one I hadn't thought of yet!
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Old 11-04-2017, 15:40   #4
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Re: The extra nifty stuff I got when I bought my boat! Keep or replace?

Why have the SH depth sounder? the Raymarine will give depth info.

BTW the DSM isn't very powerful, can you find a DSM 300? which will give a better picture, assuming it will connect to the A65, normally a DSM is teamed up with a C70/80. The A65 doesn't have AIS either, so might be worth looking at the latest Dragonfly range to see if they meet you needs.

I have also been astonished by the prices some folk will pay for 15-20 years old Raymarine parts. I was going to put together an ST4000 wheel pilot from bits but may end up selling the parts and buying new.

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Old 11-04-2017, 15:52   #5
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Re: The extra nifty stuff I got when I bought my boat! Keep or replace?

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Sure... I'd like all brand new stuff.
I'd like equipment that offers me other useful/important features the things I own don't have.
The flip side of it is that living with and using the boat will give you real-world information about what you in particular need and/or find valuable. Some people can't live with AIS. Others don't ever turn theirs on because of the "screen clutter". Some like having a chart plotter at the helm, others want it under the dodger. Some want one down at the nav station. It goes on and on.

One of the chart plotters I sold was a 10" that was at my nav station. Over four years of owning the boat, I have literally never even used it. I've turned it on like twice, just to check something. It will not be getting replaced.

In part that is because with wifi, you can use your phone/tablet/PC to echo or control your chart plotter and view other data on your network, like depth/speed/wind/etc. The 10-incher was a dinosaur.

Honestly, when I've got a cell signal, I use Navionics on my iPhone 99% of the time. It's always in my pocket, the charts are always up to date, and it's not chewing up power. That and a depth sounder probably would meet 95% of most coastal cruisers' needs. Everything else is gravy.
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Old 11-04-2017, 16:13   #6
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Re: The extra nifty stuff I got when I bought my boat! Keep or replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsmac View Post
So I now own my Hunter 28.5 (1985). It came with these electronics... not installed.
I'll be spending time in Humboldt Bay here in Northern California (and I'm talking the REAL Northern California ) until I get my skills up to a level I feel I'm ready to sail out into the big blue (with another experienced coastal sailor for starters!).
My first big trip along the coast will likely be north to Trinidad, CA, but that won't be for a while I think.>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well, I sailed up the coast right by you from SF to Vancouver Island last summer with just a Garmin handheld GPSMap 76Cx. We have old depth sounder, windspeed/direction and knotmeter package from 1986 Datamarine. Pretty basic. We didn't die.

But you get fog (we did, too). So radar and AIS, in that order, would be what I'd add. And I could still live with "just" a hh GPS, don't need a radar overlay. That's just me based on a month and a half coming up the coast.

The ideas of selling this old stuff and thinking more about what YOU think you need is well put.

Good luck. Your boat, your choice.
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Old 11-04-2017, 17:46   #7
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Re: The extra nifty stuff I got when I bought my boat! Keep or replace?

Excelent advice here.
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Old 11-04-2017, 18:03   #8
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Re: The extra nifty stuff I got when I bought my boat! Keep or replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Why have the SH depth sounder? the Raymarine will give depth info...

Pete
Not sure on that one! All this equipment was boxed up in the boat for a future install. Maybe the SH was going to be used for bilge water depth?
.
Quote:
Stu Jackson: ...Well, I sailed up the coast right by you from SF to Vancouver Island last summer with just a Garmin handheld GPSMap 76Cx. We have old depth sounder, windspeed/direction and knotmeter package from 1986 Datamarine. Pretty basic. We didn't die...
Yeah well that sounds a bit suspicious to me! How do we know you DIDN'T die... but left your computer onshore hooked up to a USB enabled Ouiji Board and your posting from the Great Beyond?

And FURTHERMORE... haphazardly throwing around words like RADAR makes my credit card jump out of my pocket like a kid with ADHD! Sorta like when I moved up to Fairbanks, Alaska and the wife (at the time) agreed when I told her I needed to mount a SNOWPLOW on my truck! Talk about feeling MANLY... now I get to have RADAR? Dayamn! I'm starting to like all this extra 'stuff' I can justify buying now that I'm a Captain of a boat! WOOT!
.
Quote:
Suijin: Honestly, when I've got a cell signal, I use Navionics on my iPhone 99% of the time. It's always in my pocket, the charts are always up to date, and it's not chewing up power. That and a depth sounder probably would meet 95% of most coastal cruisers' needs. Everything else is gravy.
GEEZ Louise! I gotta get me one of them 'Smart Phone' things? But I like my flip phone!
.

I'm vacillating between what will suit me on this boat for the next year... and what I could put on it in preparation for some real coastal cruising... whenever that comes.

I definitely want depth readings to help me get around the Bay. I hear it's easy to ground until you get really familiar with the channels.

Before venturing out of the Bay... I'd definitely want to have Radar and AIS onboard. I currently have my handheld... a Standard Horizon HX870... to take over for the old SH base radio that was on the boat.
I'm getting the old base looked at with a local radio shop... a whole $30... so I can figure out if I want to keep that or shell out another $300-ish dollars for a new VHF base with modern amenities.
.
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions!
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Old 11-04-2017, 18:03   #9
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Re: The extra nifty stuff I got when I bought my boat! Keep or replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
In part that is because with wifi, you can use your phone/tablet/PC to echo or control your chart plotter and view other data on your network, like depth/speed/wind/etc. The 10-incher was a dinosaur.

Honestly, when I've got a cell signal, I use Navionics on my iPhone 99% of the time. It's always in my pocket, the charts are always up to date, and it's not chewing up power. That and a depth sounder probably would meet 95% of most coastal cruisers' needs. Everything else is gravy.
This is getting close to a topic I've been thinking a lot lately. What is the (my) essential electronic needs as a coastal cruiser? I just bought my 1979 PEARSON 365 last month, it needs a lot of work, but I feel the portable/low cost APP based approach gets me most of the Nav info and help I need. The boat came with an old working RADAR and a fish finder for depth and bottom contour. I have OPENCPN on my laptop, Navionics on my Android tablet (with real built-in GPS a cell signal isn't involved in real-time navigation), hand-held VHF (2) and an old satellite phone for comms backup, a hand-held GPS for more location redundancy and I just bought a hand-held wind gauge if I'm curious about wind speed and direction although my cheek works pretty well and I've been setting sails without fancy electronics for thirty years.

I just read a cruising world article where they talked about "affordable" electronics packages at $5k. I would much rather have three years of insurance and moorage than that "affordable" upgrade. With tablets, phones and on-board wifi taking over are the single-purpose hardware solutions still necessary?

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Old 11-04-2017, 18:16   #10
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Re: The extra nifty stuff I got when I bought my boat! Keep or replace?

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I just read a cruising world article where they talked about "affordable" electronics packages at $5k. I would much rather have three years of insurance and moorage than that "affordable" upgrade. With tablets, phones and on-board wifi taking over are the single-purpose hardware solutions still necessary?
It's changing fast. Even a few short years ago many scoffed at the idea of using an iPad in place of a chart plotter, arguing that they were not reliable, waterproof, etc. Well that argument evaporated pretty quickly.

It's one reason why Navionics has been running so hard at the app market. I think they realize that data has been liberated from fixed-mount marinized hardware and that there's opportunity there. It's also why Navico, Garmin, et al. are embracing integrating other apps and devices, and why they are innovating so quickly around integrated packages and the software that controls them.

There will always be a market for dedicated devices, but you can get a lot further without them in terms of functionality than you could in the not too distant past.

I do have to say though that the amount of functionality that you can get in a basic entry-level equipment bundle these days is nothing short of astounding.
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Old 11-04-2017, 21:22   #11
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Re: The extra nifty stuff I got when I bought my boat! Keep or replace?

As far as connectivity through multiple devices go, I've been using Garmin to log MTB rides for the last several years and I like that.
Now I see there are watches that... along with GPS... will move NMEA info through shared devices to include the watch!
.
Watches, tablets, cellphones... where's Google Glass?
.
Anyone selling HUD for the cockpit yet?
.
I can do 'techy', but I prefer fewer devices talking back-and-forth.
I went back to my old flip phone when my iPhone 4S battery started the long slide downhill, then when my 12+ y.o. flip phone started acting up I opted for a Kyocera 'tough' flip phone (can't remember the model).
.
I don't want to steer the boat from my iPhone
I don't want to carry that everywhere with me again... always pulling it out at the slightest hint I might not have something better to do that very minute.
So a question! Or maybe I should start a new topic? I think I will!
.
But I'll keep on looking in here for what other have to say about old vs new and such.
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:04   #12
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Re: The extra nifty stuff I got when I bought my boat! Keep or replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsmac View Post
As far as connectivity through multiple devices go, I've been using Garmin to log MTB rides for the last several years and I like that.
Now I see there are watches that... along with GPS... will move NMEA info through shared devices to include the watch!
.
Watches, tablets, cellphones... where's Google Glass?
.
Anyone selling HUD for the cockpit yet?
.
I can do 'techy', but I prefer fewer devices talking back-and-forth.
I went back to my old flip phone when my iPhone 4S battery started the long slide downhill, then when my 12+ y.o. flip phone started acting up I opted for a Kyocera 'tough' flip phone (can't remember the model).
.
I don't want to steer the boat from my iPhone
I don't want to carry that everywhere with me again... always pulling it out at the slightest hint I might not have something better to do that very minute.
So a question! Or maybe I should start a new topic? I think I will!
.
But I'll keep on looking in here for what other have to say about old vs new and such.
Do you still have your iPhone? You can use it for navigation without it being attached to a cellular account. The GPS in it still works. And replacing a battery in an iPhone is easy...kits for it run around $25 on Amazon.

There is a number of benefits to having fewer devices on board. While N2k simplifies wiring, it's entirely the holy grail. Most devices other than sensors still require their own power lead. And of course there is power usage. While everything is getting more power efficient, it does add up.

One of the reasons you can sell your old stuff and make out like a bandit with new is that the relative cost keeps getting driven down. An example is Navico's Precision 9 electronic compass. It's listed at $645. The HS60 it replaces used to list at $1,000, and it's so dramatically more accurate it's closer in functionality to their $10k+ GC80 commercial-grade gyrocompass than it is to the HS60.

There's something to be said for keeping it simple, but there are times when having certain tech can be a lifesaver. A few years ago I got caught in a storm off the African coast near the start of a trade wind crossing. At night it was PITCH black...could not see ANYTHING outside of the cockpit much less a foot in front of your face, just surrounded by the roar of unseen waves. Wind instruments provided critical data about wind direction and speed over time that made managing the situation dramatically easier. So it all comes down to what you're doing, where you're doing it, on what budget and with what expectations.
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Old 12-04-2017, 05:58   #13
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Re: The extra nifty stuff I got when I bought my boat! Keep or replace?

Given how the prices have dropped for chartplotters, 5" garmin for hi $300's, I opted for a dedicated cockpit mounted unit that is quickly mounted/removed. Also adding new Garmin GNX wind wired sail pack tho, to replace many decade's old, sometime working Signet depth sounder and Data Marine instruments. Otherwise just VHF and hand-held gps...
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:41   #14
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Re: The extra nifty stuff I got when I bought my boat! Keep or replace?

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Well, I sailed up the coast right by you from SF to Vancouver Island last summer with just a Garmin handheld GPSMap 76Cx. We have old depth sounder, windspeed/direction and knotmeter package from 1986 Datamarine. Pretty basic. We didn't die.
Before crossing the atlantic from spain to antigua, I loaded about a dozen waypoints into my old garmin etrex yellow (originally $99 at walmart, now about $20 on ebay). This really was all that was needed, along with about 6 paper charts I brought with me.

The boat owner/skipper though, had purchased all new updated electronics (his old electronics being almost 10 years old), including a big screen chartplotter, electronic charts, radar, AIS, wind instruments, etc, etc...even an electronic recording barameter (Nasa Marine)...at a cost in excess of $20,000. Unfortunately, he never bothered to learn how to use any of it, or even how to turn any of it on. And when I started to figure it out, it became apparent that some components needed calibration...which was impossible under way. The AIS alarms rang incessantly, so it was turned off. The chart plotter was left on. A blue rectangle with boat icon in the centre. A piece of blue cardboard would have been sufficient, and would have saved some amps. The electronic recording barometer had a supply voltage display, and was used to monitor the always empty batteries rather than forecast the weather.

Needless to say, the owner was furious. All that money. All that stuff. Useless.

My point is that it doesn't matter how old or new your electronics may be...so long as they work and you know how to use them.

And if you are wondering why our batteries were always low, if we weren't using the radar, etc. Lets just say the beer was never warm.
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Old 12-04-2017, 09:01   #15
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Re: The extra nifty stuff I got when I bought my boat! Keep or replace?

Lol... Hamburking... to think I could dig out my old eTrex and use it for sailing over all that other guy's instrumentation...
.
Suijin... I've been glancing online at the uses people have for their iPads on boats... I'm impressed!
There used to be services that would use nano tech to waterproof phones and I think small tablets. Combine those and it'd be a nice compact, portable system.

As far as tech in my life goes, I have a MacBook Air (currently need to order a new keyboard and install it... who knew Macs didn't like sharing a nice cuppa coffee?), a Lenovo ThinkPad (currently W10 but will be converted over to Linux), a desktop with an old Linux distro soon to be upgraded, my iPhone (yeah... I'll get around to ordering a new battery someday... lol), my iPod, and a cheap tablet that I'm ordering a new battery for also.
.
.
Do you all find that things like iPads and Laptops are as long-lived and reliable as hardwired electronics?
As you can see by my list above, I have 2 devices needing new batteries, 1 device needing a new keyboard (hopefully that's all or it will cost me $50 more for the other part I'm hoping is not fried), and fortunately I can open up everyone of these and replace parts, if available, to keep them running... or even increase memory and such.
Not everyone is comfortable opening up these things even if they do much more technical stuff elsewhere.

Seems to me a hardwired device might be more reliable, although I'm not sure one would be able to open up a Plotter and go tinkering inside and have it work out successfully.
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