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Old 30-07-2015, 11:21   #1
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tablet with WAAS GPS

I want to buy a tablet as backup to the Raymarine C Series and would like a barometer and WAAS GPS.
Sunlight readable screen is a must. Perhaps I am dreaming about rain proof??

Bigger the screen the better for my old eyes, tempered by my inherent cheapness

Any recommendations as to what is the best one and what is the best buy
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Old 30-07-2015, 11:55   #2
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Re: tablet with WAAS GPS

You can buy a Bad Elf GPS puck with Bluetooth. They make cheap ones and one suitable for surveying... so you know they are accurate.

Then use a cheap tablet, so if it gets wet you won't cry!

Bad Elf GPS Pro+

or maybe a Delorme InReach... you can even get charts for that thing.
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Old 31-07-2015, 10:22   #3
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Re: tablet with WAAS GPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
You can buy a Bad Elf GPS puck with Bluetooth. They make cheap ones and one suitable for surveying... so you know they are accurate.

Then use a cheap tablet, so if it gets wet you won't cry!

Bad Elf GPS Pro+

or maybe a Delorme InReach... you can even get charts for that thing.

Not sure what sort of dollars these are but at 300 I think that one could do far better to put that towards a tablet with integral GPS
Also no apparent Android support and geared towards I-anything and a bit of Windows
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Old 31-07-2015, 10:51   #4
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Re: tablet with WAAS GPS

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Not sure what sort of dollars these are but at 300 I think that one could do far better to put that towards a tablet with integral GPS
Also no apparent Android support and geared towards I-anything and a bit of Windows
Your tablet with GPS won't survive in a liferaft.. even with a protective cover, your battery will die in a day and then what?

The Elf sends out a generic bluetooth signal... its up the the tablet to support nav data over GPS or not. Android most certainly supports external GPS devices. Best yet, it can be used by multiple devices throughout your boat.

Why Use An External Bluetooth GPS Receiver With An Android Phone? | AndroGeoid

Most cruisers now are equipping their boat with either a InReach or a Spot. We have a Spot but are switching to InReach unless Spot develops a true competitive device. They are very helpful even if you are not cruising offshore. For example, when we go exploring in our dinghy we really don't want to bring out tablet, so instead bring our Spot and our mobile... just in case.

However, if you are within range of a cell tower you can get very precise readings from any tablet that is cell enabled. If you are out of cell range then you likely do not need precision over 30 to 60 feet - just steer clear away from reefs Newer tablets support both GPS and Glonass, so they have twice as many satellites to fix your location.

I know lots of people that use old iPads - we have a gen2 with cell service - and its very precise. More precise than the charts! So no need to focus on WAAS. The new ones are even more precise.
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Old 31-07-2015, 11:06   #5
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Re: tablet with WAAS GPS

It is not for the raft. When cruising foreign places it is impractical to get a SIM card every time or cell service simply is not available. Yes I could roam using my GSM provider if I wished.

I understand the limitations and want a GPS equipped tablet for backup
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Old 31-07-2015, 11:26   #6
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Re: tablet with WAAS GPS

Good luck then!

SIM cards are available everywhere cheap - everyone in the world has a SIM prepaid cel phone now. So yes they are very practical. I was able to buy SIM cards to fit our phones in every little dirt shack on the side of the road in Africa. Same in Europe, Central America, everywhere... like $10 US here and maybe $1 US in Africa. Its a mainstay of modern communications in every country of the world.
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Old 31-07-2015, 23:39   #7
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Re: tablet with WAAS GPS

Lets give up the pissing contest as as you will know that sometimes it is just not practical to buy a SIM card when you are on the move

For example this year is Fiji, Viniatau, Solomons, Palau, and Philippines. A great mainstay , but it means visiting every little dirt shack in those countries as I go by and not what I want to do nor is it practical

I know what I want, so please back to my question
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Old 01-08-2015, 13:54   #8
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Re: tablet with WAAS GPS

You specifically asked about WAAS.

Currently WAAS is only offered in North America, so... if you want very good accuracy outside the USA you need either access to a cell signal or to highly accurate GPS system that uses multiple satellite signal systems like GPS and Glonass. Although the WAAS signal may be received in South America, it is not corrected and therefore does not have the same accuracy. The further you get away from the WAAS signal, the less the accuracy of the correction.

Personally, I find just about every tablet to work just fine without WAAS. If you really need accuracy within the length of your boat then you really need a more professional receiver but then you will find whatever charts you use probably will not be as accurate as your receiver.

The next gen tablet and phone companies may be offering DGPS but that is not a accurate as WAAS.

BTW - there is no need to get a new SIM for every country you go to. As long as the SIM is active you can use it on just about any network worldwide. Just don't use it for data or to make calls.
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Old 06-08-2015, 00:20   #9
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Re: tablet with WAAS GPS

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Originally Posted by zboss View Post
Currently WAAS is only offered in North America, so... if you want very good accuracy outside the USA you need either access to a cell signal or to highly accurate GPS system that uses multiple satellite signal systems like GPS and Glonass. Although the WAAS signal may be received in South America, it is not corrected and therefore does not have the same accuracy. The further you get away from the WAAS signal, the less the accuracy of the correction.
While WAAS is only available in North America there are similar (and compatible systems) available elsewhere, for instance EGNOS in Europe. Generically they are called satellite-based augmentation systems (SBAS). To complicate matters some device manufacturers (for instance Garmin) calls the setting to turn this on and off WAAS which is confusing since it is the same setting that enables EGNOS reception.
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Old 06-08-2015, 00:24   #10
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Re: tablet with WAAS GPS

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Originally Posted by zboss View Post
You can buy a Bad Elf GPS puck with Bluetooth. They make cheap ones and one suitable for surveying... so you know they are accurate.

Then use a cheap tablet, so if it gets wet you won't cry!

Bad Elf GPS Pro+

or maybe a Delorme InReach... you can even get charts for that thing.
The Bad ELF GPS devices are made specifically for i-devices since these cannot work with normal Bluetooth GPS devices due to limitations in iOS. If using with an android tablet I would get something else than a Bad Elf GPS, for instance a Holux.
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Old 06-08-2015, 00:53   #11
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Re: tablet with WAAS GPS

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While WAAS is only available in North America there are similar (and compatible systems) available elsewhere, for instance EGNOS in Europe. Generically they are called satellite-based augmentation systems (SBAS). To complicate matters some device manufacturers (for instance Garmin) calls the setting to turn this on and off WAAS which is confusing since it is the same setting that enables EGNOS reception.
Yes, this is true but they all suffer from the same issue... for every 60 to 75 miles you move away from a station you lose about 1 meter in accuracy... so, after 300 miles away you are not receiving any more accuracy than without it. The answer, if you really need that much accuracy far from a WAAS or EGNOS tower, is a device capable of receiving more simultaneous GPS signals. If you are close enough to somewhere that you need a lot of accuracy (within the length of your vessel for example) you are probably within range of a cell tower or too far from either cell or GPS correction signals to make a difference. In any case, charts are known to be inaccurate many times. For example, my Garmin charts often show my boat driving over land even though I have 3 to 4 foot GPS accuracy.

Pros use a combination of technology but they almost always include devices that can receive signals from 50+ GPS-like satellites, like the Elf surveyor, and correct them using advanced methods. Here is some additional info:

http://www.spatial-ed.com/gps/gps-ba...n-methods.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by madsb View Post
The Bad ELF GPS devices are made specifically for i-devices since these cannot work with normal Bluetooth GPS devices due to limitations in iOS. If using with an android tablet I would get something else than a Bad Elf GPS, for instance a Holux.

"With the 2.0.60 firmware release, the Bad Elf GPS Pro can feed location data to non-Apple devices over Bluetooth. You’ll still need an iPhone/iPad/iPod touch to be able to configure your Bad Elf GPS Pro, but once configured, it can feed location data to both Apple and non-Apple devices. You’ll also still need an iPhone/iPad/iPod touch to be able to download trips from your bad Elf GPS Pro."

"Pairing a Bluetooth GPS on Android: Bad Elf GNSS Surveyor"

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Old 06-08-2015, 05:55   #12
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Re: tablet with WAAS GPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
Yes, this is true but they all suffer from the same issue... for every 60 to 75 miles you move away from a station you lose about 1 meter in accuracy... so, after 300 miles away you are not receiving any more accuracy than without it. The answer, if you really need that much accuracy far from a WAAS or EGNOS tower, is a device capable of receiving more simultaneous GPS signals.
I'm pretty sure the iPad GPS is not WAAS-enabled. Even without that, and with the cellular function turned off, I'm showing 5 meter horizontal accuracy and 3 meter vertical accuracy with mine right now.

This is very close to the accuracy I am currently getting from our Maretron WAAS ship GPS and our Vesper WAAS AIS GPS (2 meter horizontal each).

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Old 06-08-2015, 07:09   #13
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Re: tablet with WAAS GPS

Hoghead, I deliver boats as crew about 5-6 times a year with professional delivery captains on primarily East Coast to the Caribbean and back. Many times, I don't know these captains or the boats so I always always arrive with redundancy. I have a Delorme Inreach with a subscription to OCENS weather (gives me noaa up to the minute weather and predictions 24, 48 and 72 hour at any gps coordinate I choose), Texting ability with email or cellular phones for communications, and a GPS enabled Ipad with INavx with the correct maps, Weather 4D subscription (good only with cell service) , active captain so we can know where we can refuel if necessary,Theyr, and a tide program for all and every island and coastal areas. (and a sextant but just because I like to learn old-school stuff too)

The practical use of a Waas enabled GPS can be used with an ipad ( see this link Bad Elf GPS for Lightning Connector - MyGoFlight.com ) and would be worthwhile if you can protect it from the environment in an install. I have had, and I am not exaggerating, at least 30% of the boats I have been on delivery have their navigation equipment fail during the delivery. (I have my opinion why). You know that this can happen because of your question posed.

The use of INavx or Garmin's maps with a Ipad2 with internal GPS, with a case like I show in this post ( Tablet Navigation? ) is a legitimate back up that you will use more than you think. The only disadvantage you will have with a tablet is like all touch screens, if you have moisture on it, it goes crazy. I have brought boats in through close quarters where you rely on your navigation equipment with the same level of confidence that is placed on your standard nav station. I would entertain buying the Waas for North American costal use since it is not too expensive. You could then use it for the rest of your onboard systems.
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Old 06-08-2015, 10:56   #14
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Re: tablet with WAAS GPS

So as I suspected back in post 4 the Bad Elf is I-anything. Or at least Apple to get it going and to download so useless to me as a non-Apple user,

I am not a USA or EU customer so Delorme becomes expensive as one needs the annual plan at a minimum 12 month initial commitment. Did I hear that there is a new Iridium based system coming out this year that will make this obsolete.

I would like a system like Swammy and now leaning to a Windows based convertible laptop/tablet with an external GPS. Not sure yet if Navionics supports Windows 10
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Old 06-08-2015, 14:35   #15
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Re: tablet with WAAS GPS

I just reactivated my Delorme for the next 30 days since I am doing a delivery in a few days. There is no annual plan required. You can pay for one month, and then it turns off after 30 days. When I was chatting with the customer service rep, I told her about you, and she told me that in order to get Delorme Service, you need a credit card with a US or EU based billing address(or a friend that does?) If you have that, you would have this option.

Coming back to your original questions regarding a redundant system, what is required in my experience is the ability to use it at the helm in poor conditions. Also, you also need to assume that you can charge it while in these conditions. I would venture to say that there are a few laptops that are water resistant, but you will pay big bucks for this luxury. Wether Android, Windows, or IOS, your system should be compatible with your navigation software of choice, and as well with hardware able to be portable and durable.

As in the post I linked with the pictures, I take the Ipad and charge it while it sits on the cockpit table taking spray because it is in the Nuud case but also I go caveman and have it inside of a big clear plastic zip lock bag. Not too High tec, but it works even when I've gotten pooped a few times (lucky). My Inreach is always clipped on to something inside of a waterproof case.

Last, with a tablet based system, I find that by the end of any trip, my Captains are posing questions to me like what is the optimal upwind tack angles or ETA, or distance to waypoint, and I can give her/him the answers in seconds compared to the formal paper process that I as well learned in all my formal sailing training. Also, I use the tablet for anchor alarms and the list goes on including waking up in the middle of the night on a sail and turn it on to see our progress and at times finding the crew at the helm being way off the rumb line.
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