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Old 05-09-2013, 22:01   #1
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strange nmea 183 out issue raymarine e125

replaced 2 older ray screens with 2 new e125

there was an existing ray 125 gps and some seatalk instruments so put in a seatalk to seatalk hs converter

both screens have gps from external gps, instruments working. all seatalk 1 / seatalk hs / seatalk ng working fine.

however the problem I have is with the nmea out feeding 2 icom vhfs. (502 and 604)

after spending hours of screwing around. (changing which screen was master and which one was outputting nmea, only one vhf at a time, turning off all uneeded output strings etc) I figured out the vhf would pick up position as the screen was booting up. but lose it 10 secs later almost like it was only outputting nmea during start up.

so I hooked my laptop up. and I was getting constant strings. but I was getting "ecgll" and "ecgga" strings which I've never seen before. not the normal gp ones.

so I pulled the seatalk ng cable out. screen changed to internal antenna. and then the nmea output charged to normal gp strings. and vhf kept pos.

what's up with this? what is the ec strings? and why is the chart plotter putting out nmea strings the vhf can't understand?

is the converter doing somewhere weird with the gps data, or is it the plotter? the plotter was working fine with the ext antenna

I'll probably just leave the gps antenna off. the e125 internal ones are probably better anyways...
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Old 05-09-2013, 22:37   #2
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Re: strange nmea 183 out issue raymarine e125

Have you tried talking to Raymarine on their tech support forum?

What type of converter did you use for the seatalk? Was it a NG/seatalk converter?

Should only be 1 chartplotter outputting to nmea I believe. Doesn't matter if it is master or repeater. This is also a lot less wiring as the plotters will communicate with each other over the HS network.

Had a problem getting seatalk on NG network when I changed AP brains and had to put the controller on the NG backbone. Turned out that I needed software upgrades for converter/AP brain/ and plotters even though all components brand new out of box. This one can drive you crazy especially if you are in the middle of nowhere and require flash drive to download software upgrades. Thankfully was in Singapore at the time.

Found that once you get it all working is very robust but half the adventure was getting it all working together.

When they drop 0183 altogether (if they haven't already) we won't have these problems anymore as it will force us to upgrade all the rest of the components to match the new stuff so they can talk to each other.

Already crazy with 4 backbones on the boat with HS, NG, seatalk and nmea although last are the same really.
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Old 05-09-2013, 22:44   #3
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Re: strange nmea 183 out issue raymarine e125

The icom 604 and 504 are looking for PARTICULAR messages....

I believe (I do not have my notes here...) they are looking for a GPRMC message. Regardless. by using the built in GPS it happens that the message they are sending is the one the VHF likes, whilst the older SEATALK stuff is not in the format they are looking for.

In my opinion, the idea of a NMEA standard, that one can NOT publish due to agreements, is an absurd example of idiocy.

Yet...

Best of luck.
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Old 06-09-2013, 00:33   #4
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Re: strange nmea 183 out issue raymarine e125

sorry I ment seatalk to seatalk ng converter. not hs. the long 5 connecter one with the yellow in middle. resistors on the end.

the converter is working fine because the chart plotters see the ray 125 gps and use it. and also my st60+ graphic is getting all data from the chart plotter through seatalk ng to seatalk connecter on st60.

the gps antenna shouldn't matter as the nmea strings are being feed from the chart plotter. which should all be stardard stuff. and shouldn't care how the plotter is getting it's pos, as long as it has one. and the same strings are being controller by the nmea output chart plotter settings no matter which gps It is using.

I was getting all the strings coming from the nmea port viewed by my laptop in hyperterminal. gga, gll, rmc etc. but they all started with ec instead of gp.

I've hooked up hundreds of nmea 183 stuff before and haven't seen this before.
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:01   #5
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Re: strange nmea 183 out issue raymarine e125

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seatalk and nmea although last are the same really.
nope , not in the slightest

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Old 06-09-2013, 05:38   #6
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Re: strange nmea 183 out issue raymarine e125

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Originally Posted by smac999 View Post
I was getting all the strings coming from the nmea port viewed by my laptop in hyperterminal. gga, gll, rmc etc. but they all started with ec instead of gp.
The first 2 characters are the talker ID. "GP" is GPS. "EC" is an electronic charting system. Without wishing to go into a rant about closed protocols being incredibly bad for the consumer, although NMEA-0183 is "secret", some information obtained by reverse engineering and other means is in the public domain here:

I would expect the radio to recognise the formatter strings (ie the RMC/GGA/GLL bits) regardless of the talker ID. Multiplexers with seatalk-1 input will frequently use "II" ("Integrated Instruments") as talker id for what they convert and put out to NMEA-0183.. This is a question for ICOM: whether their radio is looking for xxRMC or specifically GPRMC. Don't know where you are located, but ICOM UK have a reputation for great support so do expect a reply.

The secondary question for Raymarine is whether their plotters use "EC" as talker ID when repeating another GPS but "GP" when giving out their internal GPS.

There's too many variables in there to hope that this is the answer, but if it is, the scenario might be something like...
when everything is switched on, the plotter gets a fix with its internal GPS and starts giving out GPRMC (etc) sentences to the VHF, but when it sees GPS from the external GPS it stops using its own GPS, starts repeating the external (with talker ID "EC") which because of a questionable implementation the radio doesn't recognise.

...but that's a long shot.

Do let us know what you find out
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:25   #7
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Re: strange nmea 183 out issue raymarine e125

Just checked the manual for my 603 and it specifically lists formatters recognised (ie RMC, GGA, etc) with no mention of talker ID (as I would hope). I think it's probably unlikely that ICOM would have got it wrong in the implementation, but worth asking nonetheless.
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:32   #8
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Re: strange nmea 183 out issue raymarine e125

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Originally Posted by muttnik View Post
Just checked the manual for my 603 and it specifically lists formatters recognised (ie RMC, GGA, etc) with no mention of talker ID (as I would hope). I think it's probably unlikely that ICOM would have got it wrong in the implementation, but worth asking nonetheless.
wouldnt surprise me in the least, That assumptions have been made about the TalkerID. I seen ICOMs implementations of what they understand as standards and they can leave a lot to be desired. ( specifically in relation to class D DSC)

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Old 06-09-2013, 14:22   #9
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Re: strange nmea 183 out issue raymarine e125

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
wouldnt surprise me in the least, That assumptions have been made about the TalkerID. I seen ICOMs implementations of what they understand as standards and they can leave a lot to be desired. ( specifically in relation to class D DSC)
My syntax in my last message wasn't clear: I intended to convey that not mentioning talker ID but just formatters was a positive sign. My money would be on them having implemented it correctly (meaning I think my previous suggestion is probably far fetched). I will defer to anyone else's knowledge of DSC standards :-)
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