Standard Horizon HX890 Hand Held VHF Radio

[hellosailor]

Dockhead-
Do the math. A 5 watt or 6 watt radio will basically drain AAA cells in a surprisingly few minutes of transmit time. I figured that out only after I fell for the free AAA tray with a new SH. If I were doing it again, I'd go for one of the Icom's that takes AA batteries, which typically have 4x the power of AAA cells--at the exact same price.

FWIW.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Dockhead-
Do the math. A 5 watt or 6 watt radio will basically drain AAA cells in a surprisingly few minutes of transmit time. I figured that out only after I fell for the free AAA tray with a new SH. If I were doing it again, I'd go for one of the Icom's that takes AA batteries, which typically have 4x the power of AAA cells--at the exact same price.

FWIW.

Not only done the math, I've tried it out. By the way, transmit power is reduced when you are using the battery tray, so it's not 6 watts.



It would have been better of course if AA's could be fit in, but I guess the volume available didn't allow it.


In any case, the battery tray is for EMERGENCY calling and nothing else, and for that I think it serves its purpose. I get about 15-20 minutes of transmit time on a set of Duracells. In the liferaft with no way to charge anything, the battery tray and a decent bag full of vacuum sealed AAA's would keep you able to communicate for quite a long time.

[continuouswave]

This thread seems to contain mostly comments about the HX870 radio.

For some remarks from a first-hand user of the HX890 radio see

Standard-Horizon HX890, CLASS-H DSC Radio - CONTINUOUSWAVE

I think that discussion may be useful. It points out that the newer HX890 radio adds some features compared to the older HX870, but it also seems to omit a feature or two that could be desirable.

[hellosailor]

"By the way, transmit power is reduced when you are using the battery tray, so it's not 6 watts."
Oh, great. An improvement over my older HX851, I suppose. "Hey look, one of our customers is in distress and using emergency power. Let's put a gag on his mouth, and muffle his screams, so his throat won't be so sore."
Hmm.....Maybe this would be a great place for one of those one-shot methanol fuel cells, where you have the fuel stored separately for one-time standby use, and just "slap" the emergency pack to get one use out of it when you need it. Kinda like the old water-immersion batteries the airlines and everyone used to put on life vests (water activated then) use once and throw away?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"By the way, transmit power is reduced when you are using the battery tray, so it's not 6 watts."
Oh, great. An improvement over my older HX851, I suppose. "Hey look, one of our customers is in distress and using emergency power. Let's put a gag on his mouth, and muffle his screams, so his throat won't be so sore."
Hmm.....Maybe this would be a great place for one of those one-shot methanol fuel cells, where you have the fuel stored separately for one-time standby use, and just "slap" the emergency pack to get one use out of it when you need it. Kinda like the old water-immersion batteries the airlines and everyone used to put on life vests (water activated then) use once and throw away?

The transmit power doesn't make all that much difference. Range of a voice call is highly limited in any case. You pretty much need to be able to see the other vessel, to speak with it, using a handheld, whatever the transmit power. Unless it's an aircraft -- in which case, 2.5 watts is certainly plenty. And DSC calls are not affected. Those expensive GMDSS emergency handhelds transmit at 2.5 watts, by the way.



Your HX851 does the same thing. The HX870 has much better power management, so lasts quite a bit longer than the HX851 on the battery tray.



If one were really worried about this, the much better solution would be a 12v power pack and charging cradle. To me that, would be massive overkill. I try to keep my handheld charged -- it lives in a charging cradle at the nav table. So in an emergency, I'm likely to have a full battery anyway. That is going to be enough for 99% of all emergencies. Then the battery tray and bag of Duracells is just last ditch backup.


Or you could buy one of those GMDSS emergency handheld VHFs which are kept in commercial lifeboats. Some of those have both normal rechargeable battery, plus a single-use non-rechargeable lithium emergency battery. Like this one: https://jotron.com/product/tron-tr30...andheld-radio/








All that being said, I do agree with the poster above, that handheld DSC radio is a really key item of safety gear for an abandon ship situation.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"By the way, transmit power is reduced when you are using the battery tray, so it's not 6 watts."
Oh, great. An improvement over my older HX851, I suppose. "Hey look, one of our customers is in distress and using emergency power. Let's put a gag on his mouth, and muffle his screams, so his throat won't be so sore."
Hmm.....Maybe this would be a great place for one of those one-shot methanol fuel cells, where you have the fuel stored separately for one-time standby use, and just "slap" the emergency pack to get one use out of it when you need it. Kinda like the old water-immersion batteries the airlines and everyone used to put on life vests (water activated then) use once and throw away?

The transmit power doesn't make all that much difference. Range of a voice call is highly limited in any case. You pretty much need to be able to see the other vessel, to speak with it, using a handheld, whatever the transmit power. Unless it's an aircraft -- in which case, 2.5 watts is certainly plenty. And DSC calls are not affected. Those expensive GMDSS emergency handhelds transmit at 2.5 watts, by the way.



Your HX851 does the same thing. The HX870 has much better power management, so lasts quite a bit longer than the HX851 on the battery tray.



If one were really worried about this, the much better solution would be a 12v power pack and charging cradle. To me that, would be massive overkill. I try to keep my handheld charged -- it lives in a charging cradle at the nav table. So in an emergency, I'm likely to have a full battery anyway. That is going to be enough for 99% of all emergencies. Then the battery tray and bag of Duracells is just last ditch backup.


Or you could buy one of those GMDSS emergency handheld VHFs which are kept in commercial lifeboats. Some of those have both normal rechargeable battery, plus a single-use non-rechargeable lithium emergency battery. Like this one: https://jotron.com/product/tron-tr30...andheld-radio/








All that being said, I do agree with the poster above, that handheld DSC radio is a really key item of safety gear for an abandon ship situation.

[ozdigennaro]

One review on amazon is meaningless. I'd trust the reports above.

[JordanH]

I was searching for opinions on the HX851 and dug up this older thread. Thought I'd add my 2 cents rather than start a new thread.

Originally Posted by bailsout

Dockhead, I have the 851 and no complaints. What were yours?

I own an HX851; I used it for a couple years and loved it. Clear, easy to use, and served me well... but I hadn't sailed much in those two years, only used it to receive and the GPS (SoG and fixes) while day sailing. 3rd year? Battery died. Deader than dead and wouldn't power on under battery power. The radio was always kept charged in its cradle, even through the winter at home in my tv room. Our local radio store said, "Yup, about right... 2-3 years life in a battery." Everywhere I look up here, that battery is out of stock and $68 - $90 to replace it.
To me, this is wildly too short... there's no reason it should be such a short life and, well, given the replacement cost, it's cheaper to keep buying full cheap radios than replacement batteries. (My conspiracy theory side says, "Designed obsolescence!" but it could just be poor engineering.)

At any rate, now the question I came to ask... For those of you with Standard Horizon radios, how often do you replace your battery pack? Mine was 3 years.
2014-2017 working
2018 "gee the battery packs are expensive."
2019 "Battery pack no longer available, buy a new radio."
Am I really an old man saying, "They don't make 'em like they used to?" or did I just get a bad radio?

Now... do I replace it with an iCom or another Standard Horizon HX?
HX890 (DSC, GPS) for $250cad
Icom 93D (DSC, GPS) for $400cad

Or something cheaper missing out the important-to-me GPS function?

[hellosailor]

Jordan-
FWIW, I bought a new SH (damned if I remember the numbers) two years ago, lithium pack of course, light use and no complaints. But ~1990 I bought my first SH handheld, and it is still going, a solid metal brick that can literally pound nails. The nattery pack in that is a set of 8 AA NiCd cells, standard 600mA commercial grade cells. When I needed to replace those (the 600mA commercial AA cells are designed to survive abuse and last forever) around 2000, I called SH and asked about packs. They still had, and would gladly sell, replacement packs. But those were the same 600mA packs, at something like 1/3 the price of a new radio IIRC. I said no thanks, I was looking for something better, and they sent me a 12v power cord (cig lighter) free of charge as a courtesy. Without me even asking. I call that excellent customer service--they did the best tey could, without even being asked.
Then I had the batteries themselves replaced with 2000mA Panasonic NiMh cells, giving the radio 3x the power that it originally had. Of course that means the original charger will also take 3x longer (24 hours) to fully charge it...but that radio is still going strong.
In some ways, the older battery technology is simply better. Lithium packs are not designed for longevity--just look at the cell phone or laptop industry. Two years of regular use, and you're in pain.
I understand The Nicad Lady retired, but Bulldog Battery in Ohio and some other places can and will rebuild battery packs and replace built-in batteries, that's a viable alternative for any brand.
Icom also builds fine radios. SH is a division of Vertex, whose Yaesu line competes with Icom in ham and other markets. All prime companies.
IIRC some of the Icom handhelds have much larger battery packs, or allow for AA instead of AAA cells in their conventional "emergency" packs. I'd go for one that can use a AA pack if I were doing it again today, that gives you the most options, really.

[JordanH]

Yes, it is the Lithium ion battery that is the cause of my angst. FWIW, here is the the relevant portion of the reply from Yaesu when I contacted them in 2018.

"The batteries even when well cared for are good for about 2-3 years or approximately 300 charge cycles. The worst case scenarios for the batteries are not charging them for long periods of time or keeping them on a constant charge."

Basically, use it or lose it. I kept it on a constant charge for long, unused periods. Honestly, I think that should be a fault of the charging unit and a rather cruddy reply... really... they are saying the worst case is not charging it, or charging it. Clearly they need to work on that aspect of the product.

At any rate, don't get me wrong, I am really happy with the radio... just not the battery and less-so that I need to replace the radio since I can't get a replacement battery. If they wear out every 2-3 years, then they need to keep inventory of batteries for much longer after the product is off the shelf.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by JordanH

. . . Honestly, I think that should be a fault of the charging unit and a rather cruddy reply... really... they are saying the worst case is not charging it, or charging it. Clearly they need to work on that aspect of the product.. . .

My batteries have always lasted much longer because I leave these units most of the time at half charge, which is best for storage. I charge up when I leave for a cruise, disconnect the charger, recharge after every use or before every day in the dinghy or whatever.
--

The battery management in the radio should prevent the state of charge from getting up so high that battery life is dramatically shortened, but even a conservative normal full charge, if constantly maintained, is apparently harmful, so keeping the radio on a constant charge may harm the battery no matter what.


But in any case, you can buy a replacement battery for about $50 -- https://www.amazon.com/Standard-Hori.../dp/B01HJTD12I

[JordanH]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Part of the problem with the HX851 is there is no battery meter so you can't check if it's at half charge, empty or full charge. It's a good idea, but difficult to implement with this particular radio. (The other problem is that it lives on the boat and I'm not generally there to take it off the charger when it's complete.)

As for the battery; a) that's the US site and I'm in Canada, b) that's for the HX870 which is a completely different battery unit.

The HX851 needs the FNB-121LI which might be available on amazon.com for $50usd+international shipping+customs&duty... That's over $81cad + international shipping ($10? $20?). Amazon.ca has them listed at $90-142cad. A new radio is $250, free shipping. SMH.
(My local radio shop and marine shop have them listed $67-70 but out of stock)

Chances are I'll pick up a new radio, grumble about the price, and move on.

[hellosailor]

The lithium battery issue is sadly not new. In the cell phone business and the laptop computer business they've had the same issues. I had spare Compaq batteries (18650 lithium cells inside) show a 100% charge and then six months later, off the shelf, show as terminally dead. And lithium just doesn't decay that quickly. Of course back then they didn't at all publicize how bad it was to store them fully charged, they just said "They only last 3-4 years."

And with cell phones, many had "dumb" chargers, a few were smarter, but there was no way for the consumer to tell that. What the SH charger does, I wouldn't know. In comparison I've left a Kenwood handheld on a dumb charger for years on end--but I know that radio has internal charge control circuitry, that keeps the NiMh batteries below the "perpetual" 1/10th C charging rate. Lithium needs a zero float charge, very different.

If you call back SH and tell them "Hey, all I did was follow the instructions in the manual, there was no warning about this. Your charger apparently damaged the radio, that's a design issue, not my fault. And I'm in Canada, where number one there are no spares to be found and number two, the duty and all make it cheaper to buy a new radio, can you do anything to help me out?" someone *might* find a way to step up.

You never know.

[a64pilot]

A lot of the lipo batteries die an early death because they are pushed so hard, that is actually overcharged and then allowed to be run until they are below the min voltage, all this so that a phone, radio etc can advertise a long battery life.
How long the battery lasts is one of the first things any review of a laptop or phone, radio etc talks about.
Point is, that you shouldn’t charge overnight, just into it’s about full, then don’t use it below about 1/4 charge, and store at a half charge, in hopefully a cool not hot environment, heat kills them.

Lipo battery for my dive scooter was about $3000 if I’m remembering right, so I learned to baby it.

[bkeepers]

My wife published a review of the best handheld VHF radios that compares the HX890 to the other leading handhelds.