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Old 09-02-2016, 19:00   #31
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Re: ST-60's what to do?

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Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
Hi, did this recently - st60 wind and bidata to simrad nse12 plotter. What was needed was the small raymarine 2000 backbone, converting cable from st60 instrument and a converting cable to simrad backbone. Paid a marine electrician to install, but the parts weren't all that expensive as I recall.
I did this also, once you have NMEA2k you'll have all the instrument data at the Chart Plotter.

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. If your instruments are good, use them. The new ones with color displays show the same info at twice the cost and twice the power consumption.
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Old 10-02-2016, 08:00   #32
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Re: ST-60's what to do?

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
This is the story, I have ST-60 Tri-data instruments I guess you call them, they all work and even look nearly new as they have always been kept covered, but I wanted to integrated the data to NMEA 2000 and connect that to my Zeus plotter.
Now it's my understanding that this can be done, not really meant to work, but it's possible.
But the ST-60's are out of date, no longer supported etc., so it's sort of throwing good money after bad.
What is there available from SImrad / Navico / B&G to replace my ST-60's?
I sort of like having a dedicated wind instrument, speed I don't really need a standalone for that, but depth is nice to see big numbers and know how shallow you are.
Plus and this may sound silly, but I have three holes in the boat, with no idea of how to tastefully fill them should I go to one or maybe two MFD's.

Then there is the just how useful is integrating them into the Zeus? Should I just leave well enough alone?
The first question is, "Do you really need to integrate the instruments with the MFD?"

IMHO, speed and depth aren't necessary if you can see the existing displays from the location you can see the MFD screen.

As for wind, if you have a Raymarine autohelm that it is already connected, then you can sail to wind rather than course, without integration with the MFD. (I find this useful.) If you have Raymarine seatalk 1 compatible wind and auto, that's all you need.

So the only instrument that is kinda useful to integrate with the MFD is the autohelm, so you can motor to a track. I have used this twice in 8 years on my own boat. (Some may use it more.)

Unless your main concern is that the appearance of the instrument displays match the colour / style of the new MFD, changing is a fair chunk of change for little benefit.

So the first question to answer is, "Is it necessary for me to integrate the instruments with the MFD?"

I am not aware of ST-60s not being supported. (The units are no longer sold, much like cars of 2 model years ago, but they are still repaired.)

All transducers are available thru Airmar.

If the ST-60s still work well (and they should for a long, long time), and they still look good (and they should for a long, long time), and they fill the holes that were created to mount them, why not just continue to use them?

If you feel there is a need to integrate them with the new MFD, there are various low cost solutions for that.

You boat, your money, your decision.

Ramblin Rod
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Old 10-02-2016, 11:54   #33
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Re: ST-60's what to do?

Given that the Zeus' SailSteer navigation must have wind data to be useful, I would think it would be worth the effort and a modest expense to connect at least your ST-60 Wind to the Z7.

Looks like all you need is the Raymarine E85001 interface to convert the ST1 output to NMEA 0183, then it's just two wires to connect to your Z7's cable. With the ST-60s daisy chained, I believe the E85001 will pass the data from all three? There's an E85001 on eBay right now for $135 (NAYY).

I'm not a network type, but I did successfully connect 0183 from my VHF and Autohelm AP to my RM e7 MFD. The e7 has a similar cable, with the 0183 and video input in the same cable as power.
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Old 10-02-2016, 12:01   #34
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Re: ST-60's what to do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
This is the story, I have ST-60 Tri-data instruments I guess you call them, they all work and even look nearly new as they have always been kept covered, but I wanted to integrated the data to NMEA 2000 and connect that to my Zeus plotter.
Now it's my understanding that this can be done, not really meant to work, but it's possible.
But the ST-60's are out of date, no longer supported etc., so it's sort of throwing good money after bad.
What is there available from SImrad / Navico / B&G to replace my ST-60's?
I sort of like having a dedicated wind instrument, speed I don't really need a standalone for that, but depth is nice to see big numbers and know how shallow you are.
Plus and this may sound silly, but I have three holes in the boat, with no idea of how to tastefully fill them should I go to one or maybe two MFD's.

Then there is the just how useful is integrating them into the Zeus? Should I just leave well enough alone?
This is a no brainer to me:

Triton Display
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Old 10-02-2016, 20:39   #35
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Re: ST-60's what to do?

Didn't we already have this discussion, last year? Ok, I can talk with authority on this, because I addressed last year in my own installation. Had working ST60 wind, speed/depth, and S1 wheel pilot. All Raymarine instruments, connected together and talking between via SeaTalk.

I upgraded the chartplotter to a B&G Zeus2, added a Vesper XB8000 AIS transceiver with its dedicated GPS, an external GPS (because my Zeus was under a hard top, and the external GPS is better than the internal one), a B&G 4G radar, and a electronic compass to tighten up the radar/chart overlay. Also an Icom VHF. All of these instruments were on a N2K network. Put that together myself. No problems.

So I wanted to get the SeaTalk data to the Zeus2, and the Zeus2 GPS waypoints, etc., to the SeaTalk autopilot. I did this with a Raymarine SeaTalk to SeaTalkng converter. My Zeus2 gets depth, speed, apparent wind and speed, etc., and all of the course data from autopilot. The only issue is that the AP is controlled by the Raymarine head and not the Zeus2, but that is the way I wanted it anyway, as you otherwise would have to page thru the Zeus2 to the AP page, to make adjustments.

Now to get the converter connection correct, you have to hook it up on the backbone of the N2K network. It does not hook up from a spur cable coming off of a T. AND THERE IS NO BACKBONE CABLE MADE FOR THIS BY ANYONE. I called and talked to Raymarine, and they confirmed. You have to buy a Raymarine cable with the blue end, and cut off the opposite end, and splice on a standard N2K end piece. I did this using a cheap, Garmin 2 foot cable, and just butt spliced each one of the small wires, and then ran a piece of heat shrink over the top of everything. Use your electrical meter to continuity test. Then plug it all together, and you are done.

So faced with the same question as you now, I decided since all of my instruments worked, just to keep them. The converter was pretty cheap. As they crap out, I will replace with a N2K instrument and just add to the rest of the N2K network. Oh, and if you go the same route as I suggest above, you don't mess with NMEA0183.
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Old 23-02-2016, 01:08   #36
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Re: ST-60's what to do?

Hi, I'm replacing my ST60 tridata at the moment (having issues with speed and previous fixes so far have failed)

The issue is the seatalk network is legacy and the ST60 acts as a master device for the transducers (speed, depth).

Following a bit of research I found the i70's are excellent devices and with a converter to the seatalk network I am able to use the existing transducers whilst staging out the replacement of the st60, 6002 (auto helm) whilst keeping the st70's for now and the e80.

Over time, I will replace the st70's with i70's, the auto helm will be replaced by a p70 (sail).

best of luck
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Old 26-05-2016, 20:52   #37
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Re: ST-60's what to do?

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Originally Posted by justsail.net View Post
Hi, I'm replacing my ST60 tridata at the moment (having issues with speed and previous fixes so far have failed)

The issue is the seatalk network is legacy and the ST60 acts as a master device for the transducers (speed, depth).

Following a bit of research I found the i70's are excellent devices and with a converter to the seatalk network I am able to use the existing transducers whilst staging out the replacement of the st60, 6002 (auto helm) whilst keeping the st70's for now and the e80.

Over time, I will replace the st70's with i70's, the auto helm will be replaced by a p70 (sail).

best of luck
Following on from this I have now replaced the Seatalk network with Seatalk NG, replaced the st60s etc with i70s (and a p70 for helm), I also installed and ITC-5 to bridge the analog transducers (speed, depth and wind) to the NG network and finally installed AIS transponder with GPS and WiFi to get the whole lot talking to the iPads, Macbook etc.... you can read all about this on my site, justsail.net under discussions....
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Old 10-06-2016, 15:03   #38
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Re: ST-60's what to do? Bridge with ST70!

What I have done to bridge Seatalk to SeatalkNG:
I have bought one ST70 (E22105 from highland*123) display on ebay (from highland*123). ST70 (NOT ST70+) bridges between them. They have two SeatalkNG-like connectors on the back one for SeatalkNG and one for Seatalk. A Seatalk-connect and a SeatalkNG-spur cable are both included in the original package. ST70 translates between the protocols.
This what the documentation says and what it shows in the graphics.

The Seatalk-spur should connect to a Seatalk-backbone which could be a five connect-block: terminators on either end, ST70-spur on 2, 12V on 3 and the Zeus-spur-cable on 4. I believe SeatalkNG connects easily to NMEA2000.

Never, never will I myself replace anything expensive which still works! Expand on a cost that delivers additional value. So, put the ST70 inside so you have readings inside.
It can be configured to show multiple lines or blocks on one screen and on various pages through which you can scroll.
Alternatively mount it in a Navpod PP4100, PP4101 (swivel) or RMX4100/1 (on an arm) such that you can see it from the cabin as well as from below you sprayhood).

Will this work? I believe so, but do not know yet.
ST70 arrive today from ebay at 149 pounds from UK to be tested in July.
Navpod still to be ordered then.
The bridge to SeatalkNG was needed to bridge to my Volvo D2-55C, which as I know of today that its not digital EVC, but the last execution which analog data.
I will start another thread for help to solve analog Volvo to digital SeatalkNG.

I have part of my system on Seatalk and part on NMEA0183 (gps, vhf, AIS). Furthermore, I have Raymarine Plotter C70 and 4 ST60 (Multi inside, Tridate, Wind, autopilot outside behind the wheel), SHS, remote S100. All 11 years old and needs to keep on working, since I hate replacements.

I hpe this helps to you making up your choices.
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Old 10-06-2016, 15:36   #39
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Re: ST-60's what to do?

love when people upgrade. Set me up ST-60, with cards, sonar and radar for $500 on craigslist.
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Old 10-06-2016, 17:30   #40
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Re: ST-60's what to do?

IMHO wind instruments have limited life and so I could be tempted to replace with something 2K.

Other instruments go till their screens die .. I would keep them and interface, if you have more than two (say depth and speed).

If you are after a fine new wind instrument the now Garmin (Silva earlier) twin fin unit is sweet bananas.

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Old 10-06-2016, 18:35   #41
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Re: ST-60's what to do?

I have Furuno mfd gps radar system on n2k and st60s and st6000 ap system. I use a ship modul multiplexerwhich takes the seatalk and converts to0183 so it can be seen by the furuno system. It also sends all my data out via wifi so I can run iregatta on my iPad, where I have my polars and can get performance data. The big problem I have is the quality of the wind data out of the RM system. When I tack the true wind direction changes by 20 degrees, plus the paddle wheel calibration varies with boat speed. Looking at how I can rip out all of the RM stuff and go with NKE to get good true wind and boat speed. This is not N2k so I will be doing another translation to0183 to get the data into my nav system. But from what I can see the NKE is one of the better solutions for true wind via their multigraphic,plus it will give wind shift data and lay lines. Just need to fork out for expedition as well and the NKE autopilot controller then I will be broke but have a good system
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Old 11-06-2016, 01:20   #42
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Re: ST-60's what to do?

Dear a64pilot
I can help you! Listen to me,please: 2500US$ ??? AHAHAH..AHAHAH

I have same eqt as yours
I dont give a dime for integration! Why caring.??

All new stuff will go on Zeus2, including new B&G wind station

ST-60 works only for log, eco, speed, offering redundancy on two large monitors, and tridata values in cabin

Integration between low/high bit rate systems is for what!? Just monitors.. I keep the old ones


You need a Triton monitor + wind station, 1000$ , next year
Integration is a stupid mantra imo...

Btw, read a story here:

my brand new wind station for masthead is B&G. Actually sending no signals out.

It took us days of trials, and a few more hours, at 40eur/h, to check it out thoroughly, and finally send it back to purveyor.
As to its own comments, it seems to be an ordinary likely event!!!, they dont even check it and replace.
B&G may have a cemetery for these made-in-Mexico funky stuff

Again, it was all for free, yes, but after hours of puzzling tests, discomfort, interrogations, boat on hold...indirect costs (pretty direct to me..)
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Old 11-06-2016, 01:40   #43
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Re: ST-60's what to do?

Apart from my opinions the key take away from my contribution is:
ST70 (NOT ST70+) display provides a bridge between old Seatalk (ST60s) and new SeatalkNG (ST70+, i70, p70 etc) and is also a very usedull display as well.

They are rare but relatively cheap on ebay. Half price from a ST60 tridata but far more useful. If you need an extra display for seatalk or seatalkNG this one fit both worlds and gives you a bridge for free.
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Old 11-06-2016, 09:05   #44
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Re: ST-60's what to do?

i have always found that the purchase price of complicated mechanical or electronic equipment is only half the eventual cost of getting it all to work. whether you pay someone to install or you do it, the investment in setup is at least equal to the purchase price. As I said earlier, I installed an all new Raymarine system and into the second season I love it, still I have a lot of work to get everything working. the basic communications and autopilot work flawlessly (wind vane, track, route, go-to, auto-tacking). wonderful for a single-hander.

the new system swings its compass and learns from the way the boat reacts to the helm and speed. awesome. it is also recording my depth readings and Navionics assimilates the data in my charts each week. great for the skinny water areas I travers.

still I have to calibrate lay lines to polars and test the AIS and VHF-DSC. I can see and hear others but really not sure they can see and hear me.

I've had four boats, the boat I sailed the most was a Santa Cruz 27. displaced a ton. had an auto battery that ran a speedo and minimum nav lights. bucket for a head, box for ice. 3hp outboard. no roller furling. there was nothing to fix or calibrate. the more complicated your systems are the less time you'll spend sailing.
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