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Old 12-03-2013, 03:08   #61
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Re: SSB vs HAM

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I believe an unmodified Icom 802 SSB can transmit on HAM bands.
The modification consists only of entering a series of key presses which are not described in the manual.
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:20   #62
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Dockhead. There is no issue using a marine SSB in the UK on ham bands, under ham rules. There is an issue under marine VHF regulations. This is an issue people keep mixing up.

Dave
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:18   #63
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Re: SSB vs HAM

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The icom 801E was brought out to implement a full class D MF/HF set, which the 802 cannot do.
By the looks of it you might not actually be able to buy a CE marked 12v marine ssb anymore

Icom M801e Marine SSB transceivers - SailCom Marine
Quote:
SOLD OUT of 12 volt units
ICOM have now ceased manufacture of the only 12 volt EU approved HF marine radio.
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:30   #64
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Re: SSB vs HAM

Back to the op for a moment, this site might be interesting for a peek into radio & wfax life onboard a real long distance cruiser..
S/Y Nereida sails around the world
Almost every post there is talk of HF radio & weather, seems to be mostly ham nets she uses. On a M801 according to here.. Boat Details
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Old 12-03-2013, 05:01   #65
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Re: SSB vs HAM

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Dockhead. There is no issue using a marine SSB in the UK on ham bands, under ham rules. There is an issue under marine VHF regulations. This is an issue people keep mixing up.

Dave
The first proposition I understand -- and that's one less issue than we have in the US, hurrah!

The second I don't understand -- what are "marine VHF regulations"? What issue?
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:46   #66
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Re: SSB vs HAM

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
The first proposition I understand -- and that's one less issue than we have in the US, hurrah!

The second I don't understand -- what are "marine VHF regulations"? What issue?
The first proposition is not exclusive to the US, it also applies in Europe and the UK

The Second proposition is due to type approved or type certified radios and radio installations. For example in the EU , all radios are either MED or CE marked and are type approved by ETSI for the particular service that is intended. Altering a type approved radio, breaks the ETSI certification and hence renders the radio unsuitable for its approved function. ( it matters not that the alteration is software or hardware based).

The FCC has something similar as well as a provision I believe whereby Ships radio installations cannot be used for amateur working.

IN the UK for example a license is issued to TX and "Receive" , so even technically using a radio to listen to a service that you dont have a license for and isnt a broadcast station is illegal.
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Old 12-03-2013, 10:26   #67
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Re: SSB vs HAM

Dockhead,

From what I can tell:

EN 96/98/EC is the governing directive.

It is adopted in various places in the UK, but probably the closest relevant article is Merchant Shipping Notice M 1714 (www.mcga.gov.uk/mca/msn1714.pdf), which leads to the ETSI standard for acceptance of Maritime Mobile Service (MMS) radios (not to be confused by HAMs who use the term "maritime mobile", the ITU defines MMS as what we think of as "marine SSB" although it is much farther reaching and includes VHF and InMarSat).

ETSI document 300 373 (www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_i_ets/.../300373/01.../ets_300373e01p.pdf), Section 7.1.5.2 says:

Quote:
7.1.5.2 Transmitters operating between 1 605 - 27 500 kHz
The transmitter shall only [bold added] have facilities for operation on all frequencies in the bands allocated in the Radio Regulations [1], to the MMS.

The "Radio Regulations" are ITU Radio Regulations, the full text can be downloaded here: (Radio Regulations, Edition 2012), the relevant parts are Volume II, but basically it boils down to the accepted marine radio frequencies and excludes things like the amateur bands.

The only potential out that I saw was that all of the UK regulations I could reference specifically exclude "pleasure craft". I'll leave it to you on whether you think it is legal to open up a CE type accepted marine radio on a pleasure craft.
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Old 12-03-2013, 10:38   #68
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Re: SSB vs HAM

Down here in the Caribbean, we have lots of SSB nets we use to stay in touch and get weather, and occasionally track a boat in difficulty. Nobody cares what licenses you have or what your call sign is, and everyone is polite and helpful. If you are foolish enough to state your call sign, you will very likely hear from some rude idiot telling you that you should not be on this frequency.
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Old 12-03-2013, 10:45   #69
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Re: SSB vs HAM

dockhead-
As you amateur radio license, and station, are authorized by the FCC they are also governed by FCC regulations at all times, in all locations. "Part 97" includes:
"ß 97.11 Stations aboard ships or aircraft.
(a) The installation and operation of an amateur station on a ship or aircraft must be approved by the master of the ship or pilot in command of the aircraft.
(b) The station must be separate from and independent of all other radio apparatus installed on the ship or aircraft, except a common antenna may be shared with a voluntary ship radio installation. The station's transmissions must not cause interference to any other apparatus installed on the ship or aircraft."


So, in the best case, as a voluntary (not mandatory equipment) radio, you are not allowed to use the same radio for ham and marine stations. One might argue that if I unplug the mic and power cord, and plug in this other mic and power cord, I have rebuilt a station...and the practical side is (again) no harm no foul, but that's the law and you cen only write to the FCC to enquire on their feelings.

Of course, since you are operating the ham station as a guest subject to the reciprocal license and local regulation, it can only get more complicated from there.

Not to worry, I'm sure you can buy some CE stickers on eBay and apply them as needed.<VBG>

You think you have a problem? I know someone who bought a surplus State Department "ham-able" radio in the days when Canal Street and Radio Row predated the WTC. He got it home and opened it up and said, gee, what's this funny cord running all around inside?

Ah, the funny cord was primer cord, rigged to explode and destroy the radio which had been surplused from a diplomatic installation. The radio went back to the store, very quickly.

The FCC regulations are silent on the subject of primer cord and destruct charges. I'm not sure, but I think the primer cord is less to worry about than the morass of regs.
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Old 12-03-2013, 10:46   #70
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Re: SSB vs HAM

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Originally Posted by lorenzo b View Post
Down here in the Caribbean, we have lots of SSB nets we use to stay in touch and get weather, and occasionally track a boat in difficulty. Nobody cares what licenses you have or what your call sign is, and everyone is polite and helpful. If you are foolish enough to state your call sign, you will very likely hear from some rude idiot telling you that you should not be on this frequency.
Exactly; y'all should enjoy life a bit more and worry about governments and their silly rules a bit less
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Old 12-03-2013, 11:07   #71
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Re: SSB vs HAM

Who actually enforces any rules and how would they go about that? Why would I pay anyone to use the radio?
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Old 12-03-2013, 13:07   #72
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Re: SSB vs HAM

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I think the F C C checking if your radio is being used as intended is about as likely as a traffic cop checking to see if your smog valve is working properly on your car......
True. The odds of getting caught are extremely small. I don't know of any specific cases of the FCC fining anyone for using a single radio for both marine SSB and ham operations, but it certainly isn't impossible. As such, if you choose to take the gamble, I won't criticize the decision.

On the other hand, if you get caught, don't expect any sympathy.
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Old 12-03-2013, 13:22   #73
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Re: SSB vs HAM

I agree that the chances are slim.

However, I was contacted a few weeks back by a Coast Guard officer who is responsible for checking compliance on commercial vessels. He wanted to know the specific transmitting and receiving capabilities of a fairly rare marine radio. His interest was to be sure it was in compliance with the requirements.

True, it's unlikely the FCC would nab you UNLESS you were willfully causing "harmful interference" on the marine, ham, aircraft, or any other bands.

Whether or not the Coast Guard would check, or care, during a routine boarding is another matter.

You pays your money and takes your chances!

Whatever you choose to do with a radio onboard, just be sure you treat it with respect and not flaunt the rules and regulations. They are generally there for a reason and, in fact, most make good sense and are in compliance with long-standing international treaties and agreements.

A few are particularly troublesome and the regs are somewhat murky, witness much of the discussion in this thread.

Bill
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Old 12-03-2013, 14:08   #74
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Re: SSB vs HAM

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Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post

Whatever you choose to do with a radio onboard, just be sure you treat it with respect and not flaunt the rules and regulations. They are generally there for a reason and, in fact, most make good sense and are in compliance with long-standing international treaties and agreements.


Very well put and very difficult to disagree with, not really much different than good manners.
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Old 12-03-2013, 14:19   #75
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Re: SSB vs HAM

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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
True. The odds of getting caught are extremely small. I don't know of any specific cases of the FCC fining anyone for using a single radio for both marine SSB and ham operations, but it certainly isn't impossible. As such, if you choose to take the gamble, I won't criticize the decision.

On the other hand, if you get caught, don't expect any sympathy.
Not even sure how they would prove it. They aren't even making much of an effort to catch the fake distress calls on VHF, which seem to happen regularly. If you're planning on Blue water cruising and this is a worry.... you'd better look some more life and death worries!!
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