Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-02-2019, 13:32   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Blue Mountain Ont
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 400 40 ft "Camp David
Posts: 474
SSB RF Ground

I don’t want to start a long thread on The merits of this versus that. Just attempting to gauge the outcome of my alternatives.

So on a scale of 1 lowest and 10 highest how would the following be rated for performance as a RF Ground and or counter poise for an Icom M802 and AT-140 tuner installed in a sailboat with 43 ft backstay antenna

4” Copper strip from tuner to a thru hull. Distance less than 24”

20 sq ft of copper foil bonded to the hull attached to tuner with a 3” copper strip

4” copper strip attached to two 12”/3”/1-2” Dynaplates.

Kiss ground attached to tuner

Hoping to not get into a big discussion only rating the performances of these installs
__________________

CampDavid is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2019, 13:45   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Panama City FL
Boat: Island Packet 32 Keel/CB
Posts: 398
Re: SSB RF Ground

I vote for the copper strip to the thru hull (0 to 10 say 7 or 8)
__________________

Frankly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2019, 14:17   #3
rbk
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Whitehorse, YT
Boat: Tayana 37
Posts: 1,006
Re: SSB RF Ground

After ripping and vaccuming out a mile of foil and scraping glue, I went for a dynaplate and short run of foil and easy to replace. On that note I found another large pocket of corroded foil leavings this weekend. It gets everywhere and will make its way to the bilge and clog the pump.
rbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2019, 14:39   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Blue Mountain Ont
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 400 40 ft "Camp David
Posts: 474
Re: SSB RF Ground

Performance better with Dynaplate?
CampDavid is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2019, 15:48   #5
rbk
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Whitehorse, YT
Boat: Tayana 37
Posts: 1,006
Re: SSB RF Ground

I’m no expert by any means (barely an amateur) , but I get decent reception from my harbor in the bottom of a 6000ft fjord with 150-200 miles of some of the largest mountings in North America blocking the way. I think the foil would/could be better but it’s also pretty easy to bolt a plate on and connect it, although some have good results with a thru hull as well.
rbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2019, 16:04   #6
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 14,241
Re: SSB RF Ground

this subject has been hashed out so very many times... if you will look at some of KA4WJA's posts (stickies), a definitive answer from an expert is there.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Spring Bay, Tasmania, waiting out f/c storm force W'lies
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2019, 17:23   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Blue Mountain Ont
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 400 40 ft "Camp David
Posts: 474
Re: SSB RF Ground

Agreed. kA4WJA gives a great sense of what is required for the best possible install however I am attempting to garner an understanding of the real performance possible based on my alternatives

I am prepared to give a little in an effort to ease the installation however not to lose too much output
CampDavid is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2019, 17:52   #8
Registered User
 
Brian.D's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Oceanside Ca
Boat: Lancer 27PS
Posts: 75
Re: SSB RF Ground

Try them all and see for yourself what works. Something might work on someone else's boat but might not work for you.

First thing to try is to take your copper strap and put it overboard about 6" in the water (reference Gordon West paper on saltwater ground - https://www.sfbaysss.org/resource/do...GordonWest.pdf). You may have already read this but he has some good info just in case you have not.

Next, try the KISS. But don't buy one. KA4WJA shows the difference between the commercial version and one he built. I use a DIY version here at home and it works great. https://briandphoto.net/KISS-SSB.html

Best to try for yourself and find which one, or a combination, will work for you.
__________________
Brian D
KF6BL
S/V Takara
Brian.D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2019, 18:53   #9
Registered User
 
SoonerSailor's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Camden, ME
Boat: A Thistle and a Hallberg-Rassy 36
Posts: 757
Re: SSB RF Ground

You will not find a “definitive” answer. Many solutions will “work” and even the worst of them sometimes give you a fantastic long distance report which will prove through the science of anecdote that here is the best solution. You will certainly do well by running thick copper strap or a fat cable to something in contact with sea water.
SoonerSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2019, 19:16   #10
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: 1987 Cabo Rico 38 #117
Posts: 3,848
Re: SSB RF Ground

You left one off... our Frigoboat Keel cooler does double duty as a counterpoise. It's basically a dynaplate.
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2019, 20:15   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 706
Re: SSB RF Ground

Your handle suggests a freshwater environment. So if my current delusions are in synch with reality, the square of foil and the KISS will work better than the through-hull or the dyna plate.

Of course, if your boat is in sea water... never mind.
toddster8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2019, 00:21   #12
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 23,674
Re: SSB RF Ground

I think all things being equal the Dynaplate will outperform a thru hull.
However probably not by much and it’s not likely worth buying a Dynaplate and hauling the boat etc go install. Probably not enough difference to be critical.
I note that unless I’m mistaken that KA4WJA has dual small Dynaplates.
__________________

a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ssb

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
9 V difference between ground and ground Arrandir Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 12 19-07-2018 22:51
Negative Ground vs Positive Ground History Question. Wotname Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 20 14-05-2017 11:43
To ground or not to ground an aluminum arch...that is my question. chrtucke Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 9 06-10-2014 23:17
SSB Ground phorvati General Sailing Forum 2 03-04-2006 11:12
ssb ground davemaskell Marine Electronics 17 02-12-2005 18:47



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:25.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.