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Old 21-04-2010, 13:14   #1
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SSB Reception

hi, Cruisers,

Perhaps one of you could help me figure this out.

I've been fiddling with my radio for a week or so, trying to get reception on the ham bands (or anywhere else.)

We have an icom m802 radio and tuner, and an icom AT-140 antenna tuner. It was professionally installed and wired about a year ago- and I'm trying to get someone local to check it out, so far no calls back.

Anyway, from what I've heard, I should be able to receive at least few programmed channels, and the major ham frequency (14.300) so I can check our transmission.

But nothing seems to come in except preprogrammed channel #67 (NPR International, according to the list).

The exception is around 6-7 pm, when there's a period of clarity-then there's some activity around 14.300 (mostlly in Spanish- we're anchored in Key West). And sometimes the time comes through as well (15.000).

Any ideas on what might be going awry?
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Old 21-04-2010, 13:41   #2
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I've got the same unit as you do, an 802 and a 140... and normally its really quite..
On a lot of the ham bands, you'll hear check in around 7 to 8 pm in areas...
I was on last night and picked up a couple people on the "ship" chanels of 4a and 4b........
You might get ahold of a local club and get someone to come out to check it out..
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Old 21-04-2010, 13:59   #3
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To start, try to tune in whan you know someone is transmitting. The USCG HF Voice broadcasts are good for this. Here is a list of stations/times/frequencies: USCG HF Voice

Also, try to get away from the marina. The noise levels are very high in most marinas, which makes it very hard to pick up the weaker signals.

The time of day and frequency are critical for distance communications. Sometimes from San Francisco I can pick up Hawaii loud and clear, and can barely hear Point Reyes.
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Old 21-04-2010, 15:01   #4
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What and how much you hear is a function of two things:
1. the proper working condition of the radio and antenna, and
2. solar flux.

The radio could be operating properly but the propagation has been quite poor recently on the Hf bands. That plus your ambient noise floor might indicate you have a problem where none exists.

Best to have someone, even another boater who knows how to program and operate the Icom, check it out.
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Old 21-04-2010, 15:22   #5
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Check the time channels first, WWV 5, 10, 15, 20. At least one of them should be clear enough to hear.

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Old 21-04-2010, 15:35   #6
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You'll hear best when the tuner is tuned to the frequency you're listening to. The 802 has an automatic tuning mode which should be turned ON. Then, whenever you press the mic button the AT-140 will tune to that frequency automatically, without the need for you to speak into the mic.

To turn it on, follow the instructions beginning on p49 of your 802 manual, viz..

Enter the Initial Set Mode
1. Turn the Power OFF
2. Hold the MODE button down while you turn the POWER on
3. Rotate the GRP knob (big one on the left) until you get to Automatic Tune
4. Rotate the CH knob (big one on the right) until you turn to ON
5. Turn the POWER off, then back on

Check it by turning to another frequency far from the one you were on. Push the mic button. You should hear the AT-140 tuning...click click click. When it stops, you should be tuned to that frequency.

Every morning beginning at 0800EDT we on the WaterWay Net 7268LSB talk to boats up and down the East Coast and Caribbean, including Key West. You should be able to hear some activity. Afterwards, beginning at 0830, listen on 6227USB for the Cruizheimer's Net. Some 50-70 boats all over the same geographic area generally check in.

As was stated above, if you're in a marina it's very hard to tell if all is OK unless you're a very experienced radio operator. But, you should hear something.

Good luck,

Bill
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Old 21-04-2010, 19:18   #7
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The quality of Transmitting can vary depending of the time of the day, propagation, etc.

I usually receive pretty good most of the time.

Have not fiddled with the SSB for a while, but BBC World News comes in pretty good wherever I am.

Don't have the freq or channel due to loss of brain cells, but Google is standing by for your needs.

Use WLO as well..Ya get good radio checks there..Channel 824.

(They may have changed name to ShipCom or some such thing,..Damn brain cells.)
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Old 22-04-2010, 07:16   #8
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Trying out recommended frequencies, at different times, makes me think the radio is basically working fine. 6227usb came in fine this morning, also 14.300 last night.
Gain is ok. Haven't had a chance to check Auto Tuning mode- I'll try later today.

all this has been very helpful, so THANKS.
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Old 04-05-2010, 15:02   #9
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i'm having some reception issues too, and have three quick questions:

1. how big a deal is marina noise? i get that it's an issue, but i should be able to hear SOMETHING, right? or is it really critical enough that proper assessment of my reception capabilities needs to be done out of the marina?

2. i've heard that the counterpoise is really only critical for transmission, and shouldn't effect my reception. true or false?

3. how 'bout the antenna tuner? is that critical for reception, or is that also primarily for transmission purposes?

tangentially related (and admittedly dumb) question: people above have referred to "Channels" (4a, 4b, etc.). how do channels differ from specific frequencies? i assume that a channel is just a designator for a frequency, right? assuming this is the case, how come my radio just displays the frequency with no channel associated with it?
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Old 04-05-2010, 15:13   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb79 View Post
i'm having some reception issues too, and have three quick questions:

1. how big a deal is marina noise? i get that it's an issue, but i should be able to hear SOMETHING, right? or is it really critical enough that proper assessment of my reception capabilities needs to be done out of the marina?

2. i've heard that the counterpoise is really only critical for transmission, and shouldn't effect my reception. true or false?

3. how 'bout the antenna tuner? is that critical for reception, or is that also primarily for transmission purposes?

tangentially related (and admittedly dumb) question: people above have referred to "Channels" (4a, 4b, etc.). how do channels differ from specific frequencies? i assume that a channel is just a designator for a frequency, right? assuming this is the case, how come my radio just displays the frequency with no channel associated with it?
1. Marinas, generally, are terrible places to test SSB reception. They vary, of course, from just bad to awful (that's an engineering term :-). Seriously, reception in a marina can vary greatly from slip-to-slip. It's best to get out on anchor a long ways from the marina.

2. Counterpoise (or RF ground) is only critical for transmission. Correct. You don't need a good counterpoise to receive reasonably well.

3. Antenna tuner also is unnecessary. However, if the antenna tuner is in line with the antenna, and if it's not set for pass-through -- or not tuned to the frequency in use -- received signals can be attenuated.

4. Channels = frequencies. Yes. It's the generally accepted term for specific, assigned frequencies in the marine and other bands. E.g., Channel 16 VHF is 156.800 mHz. But it's always referred to as "Channel 16". Marine SSB radios are "channelized", that is, they have a number of specific designated marine frequencies stored in memory. The ITU has specified a number of simplex (same transmit and receive frequency) and half-duplex (different transmit and receive frequencies), and has given them a unique identifier. However, it's general practice these days for boats to refer to the simplex "channels" by the actual frequency, e.g., the Cruizheimer's Net is on 6227 (winter) and 8152 kHz (summer). Herb is on 12359 kHz, also known as Channel 12C.

Bill
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Old 04-05-2010, 19:10   #11
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thanks, bill - super helpful.

i think part of my confusion may have stemmed from the fact that i'm not actually using a designated marine SSB, so maybe the designated marine channels aren't programmed into my unit?

anyhow, i found the link below which might be helpful for others who might be in the same position:

SSB Simplex Channels
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Old 05-05-2010, 19:19   #12
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SSB Reception Problems...

Those having SSB reception troubles should be able to find some threads on that issue here as well as on the SSCA Discussion Boards http://forum.ssca.org/phpBB3/

However, after searching, you may need to wade thru so much that you may get discouraged.....

At the risk of using too much of this Forum's server space, maybe I should just quote one of my recent posts, here????
While this was in response to a specific question regarding "static", and "poor reception" compared to others (or compared to what others "say they get"...), and how you can evaluate / "test" your receive performance (and improve it).....it should be of use to many of you.....



Quote:
Bay Pelican wrote:We have been plagued by poor reception on our SSB/Ham radio since its installation. I have had it checked by two professionals, one in Florida, one in Martinique. We continue to have much poorer reception than the boats around us.
Marty,
Unfortunately yours is not an uncommon complaint....
I hope to be able to help you here, BEFORE you spend even $1 more....

First off, I cannot give too many details, since I do NOT have much info to go on....
I do not know:
what boat you have,
what radio you have,
how old it is,
who installed it,
how/where it was installed,
how is it wired,
how/where your tuner is installed,
how are other systems installed on your boat,
how/where are they wired,
how are those other systems used,
can you / do you completely power down everything else on board to "test" you radio's receiver performance,
etc. etc. etc..

And, of course, one of the most important details of all:
how much experience do you have with HF radio systems, whether ham/maritime....
This detail is sometimes overlooked, since the "professionals" that you hire want to get paid, and they're unlikely to comment on the possibility that the operator (you) may be part of the problem......(please understand I'm NOT imply this, but just explaining why it's important to know what the user/operator's level of experience is, and how willing they are to learn.....)


It is an unfortunate fact that actual electronics troubleshooting is getting to be a lost art......most "radio techs" are just guys that know the difference between DC and AC, and are really just "parts changers", with NO real knowledge of what they're working on......This doesn't mean that they aren't "professional", and many are in fact "factory certified"....But, even these professional, factory-certified techs mostly have NO real knowledge of what they're working on.....they just change some parts until the problem goes away....at best, they follow some instructions and "hope"....
So, please understand this going in, BEFORE you spend any more $$$$


So, I can only give you some generalities to work with....

1) Almost all HF transceivers made within the past 30+ years have more than adequate rec sensitivity, and when used on most bands/freqs below 15 mhz the radio's receive sensitivity is NOT the limiting factor at all....(and at these times, they are limited by natural, or man-made, noise....)

What this means is, that unless there was a "defect" in your radio itself from the start, your radio itself is most probably NOT at fault......

{ One important thing to note here is that many "entry-level" ham radio transceivers and most "do-it-all" ("dc-to-daylight") ham radio transceivers have very poor receivers when subjected to strong signals, and/or high noise levels, and/or improper installation......and are typically not very forgiving of even slight interfering signals coming in on the power cables, interconnecting cables, etc....as well as being very "touchy" in regards to voltage fluctuations, etc....although they guys touting and selling these nice radios to unsuspecting sailors are loath to recite all of this, since they might lose the sale......(this is just one of the many reasons that true HF marine radios are preferred for use on board many/most boats.....and they'll only typically cost you a few hundred dollars more.....) }


2) I'm assuming that you're NOT trying to use this set-up from a marina / yacht club, since then you've got not only all of the noise producing crap on everyone else's boat that will affect your reception, but all of the noise producing crap from the marina and whatever electrical systems (in houses and businesses) within a 1/2 mile or so, that also can affect your reception....

So, if you are testing this at a marina, or close (<1/2 mile) to shore, MOVE away from there and then do you testing....

And, any "professional" that attempts to do this testing while you're in a marina should know this.....and if he/she doesn't tell you this BEFORE he comes on board, then (in my opinion) they are not too "professional" and are suspect.....


3) Another fact is that the typical modern cruising boat is full of "noisy", static producing devices......while this is typically spoken of as just being the "big" and popular stuff, such as: inverters,
battery chargers,
gensets,
engine alternators,
electric fuel pumps,
computers and their power supplies,
solar panel charge controllers,
wind generators and/or their charge controllers,
battery system monitors (Links, etc.)
LED lights,
fluorescent lights,
electronic instruments,
watermakers,
automatic bilge pumps,
etc. etc. etc...

(Please take note that while marine refrigeration units are talked about interfering with HF radio reception, their primary interference is in radiating "birdies" (lots of RF carriers, mostly pulsing on/off sounding like morse code), and NOT radiating wideband noise / "static"......although it is a possibility that your frig is causing the problem, using the words that you posted, it's more likely to be something else.....)

The fact is that wideband noise / static can be caused by so very many things on board, your best way to track down where your static is coming from is to turn off EVERYTHING on board.....absolutely everything disconnected, with breakers switched off, NOT just "turned-off".....Hopefully you can switch off your main battery switches, and disconnect everything else from the batteries that doesn't go thru the main switches....(and also check to see if you have anything else on board that might be powered by its own source / battery.....and remove the batteries from them as well...)

Then, making sure that your HF ham/SSB radio is wired directly to your main batteries, turn it on and see you you still have the wideband noise / "static" that you're having trouble with....

You can do this test easily by yourself and save the $$$$.....
This test IS the "test" that any "professional" would do, if the noise he/she hears in the speaker is not the typical "band noise" (natural background noise from both our Earth / ionosphere / magnetosphere and even from "outer space")......
And this is why inquiring into the experience level of the user/operator is so important.....sometimes when laypersons hear static, they think something is wrong, and many times nothing is wrong, and what they are hearing is mother nature, and there's nothing can be done about that.....

Doing this test in this way, may sound like overkill, but it really isn't......
Heck, I've heard guys that have simply turned off a 12 volt fan and their receiver noise level dropped from almost unusable to almost dead quiet.....and the same for one guy who found his "digital" volt and amp meters in his Nav Station was the cause of very high noise levels....and others that have found that "photocells" (that turn on portable deck lights / anchor light at dusk and turn them off at dawn) to be the cause of the troubles.....and others have found that a simple $10 digital clock was the cause of the problem....


If, you do find that your noise level / "static" is reduced or eliminated when you do this test, they all you need do is to connect / turn-on one item at a time, until the offending items/systems are found......
At that point you can decide to "fix" the interfering noise, or simply switch-off the offending systems when using the radio.....

Now, if you find NO change in noise level / you still have all the same static, then we move on to test other things......(see below)
Bay Pelican wrote: I would like to learn something about the testing reception so that I have some idea what the professional is doing. Can anyone suggest an article or site I could review as to which tests should be made.
Our problem is static. Even with what appears to be a dead boat the static drowns out the reception in many cases. For example we cannot hear/understand Chris Parker on many days here in the leewards even though our neighbors can.
Marty,
If you wish to learn about radio testing, etc. I suggest reading The Radio Amateurs Handbook, by the ARRL.....also known as "The Handbook"....
http://www.arrl.org

But, I believe that you may be looking for a way to verify that these "professionals" are really doing some professional testing????
And, quite honestly, I can tell you a few ways you, yourself, can do some tests that any "professional" coming on-board would do first before plugging his test equipment....(see below)

4) Any true HF radio repair professional would have a "service monitor" and/or "signal generator", to test receiver performance and sensitivity...... (and many other devices as well, such as o'scopes, etc. and probably a spectrum analyzer, for testing other problems).....
However, most of these instruments are "bench test gear", meaning that your radio would need to go to their shop for testing, which really defeats the process we are trying to accomplish here, and that is "Field Testing".....

So, for field testing where the chief complaint is "I have lots of static" or "I can't hear very much"......the "professional" probably isn't going to do much beyond basic field-testing.....
And, this "basic field testing" would include:
a) The complete test above to determine if there are external interfering sources....
b) Verifying that the radio is wired directly to the house battery bank....and that the connections are clean and tight....
c) Verifying that the radio and antenna tuner are wired correctly and the connections are clean and tight....
d) Verifying that the antenna (backstay) is connected to the tuner correctly (using GTO-15 wire) and that the connections are clean and tight, including the backstay insulators....
e) Verifying the voltages at the radio and antenna tuner are correct......(typically using a digital multi-meter, which you should have on-board....so you can do this test as well, assuming you have the correct voltages listed in your equipment manuals...whatever radio / tuner you have.....)
f) Verify that any ancillary equipment connected to your radio (PACTOR modem, computer, external speakers, etc.) AND any of that equipment's wiring is not the cause of any wideband noise / "static" interference......(sometimes it can be that a cable that connects your radio to a modem or computer is in fact ALL that is causing the problem.....)
g) Then tuning the radio to some regularly scheduled broadcasts, hopefully on different frequencies, and using his experience/knowledge, can verify that the radio is actually receiving these broadcasts and that the received signal-to-noise ratio (S/N) is "normal" or "typical"......
Using the USCG HF weather broadcasts and WLO hourly traffic lists (and weather broadcasts), as well as WWV (2.5, 5, 10, 15 and 20mhz) etc.....checking all the frequencies used by all of these stations....will give you a very good idea of what's working properly and what (if anything) isn't....
For Voice Broadcasts that can hear down in the Caribbean fairly well, here are some lists of freqs / times....
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/hfvoice.htm
http://www.shipcom.com/frequencies.html

h) Then if the above tests still show all is well, check out some lower-powered transmissions such as those from hams and other boaters, as well as Chris Parker.....
But, remember that Radiowave Propagation is NOT constant, nor is it the same over wide areas....as an example you could find good reception in one harbor when listening to some broadcast, but another cruiser in another harbor 50 - 100 miles away has poor reception, and vice versa.....
Listen to Chris Parker on all of the frequencies he uses...
Listen to the MMSN on 14.300mhz ( http://www.mmsn.org) daily from 1600z thru to 0200z....
And also have a listen to the WW Net on 7.268mhz....
And have a listen to other "cruiser's nets" as well.....

If you start your troubleshooting early in the day, you should have an answer to your problem by mid-morning, and it'll cost you nothing at all......


There are other tests to do, or consider doing, if the results of the above tests prove inconclusive......(although, by this point there's a great chance that you've already found the problem...)
As you can easily see so far, that while this troubleshooting is time consuming, it is NOT all that technically involved, nor does it cost you any money!!!!

On shore, I have both a portable spec analyzer as well as a big 'ol HP bench unit, etc. as well as an old service monitor, etc. etc. etc.... but on-board I use a portable HF / SW / AM / FM receiver to track down interfering signals (and have a few DMM's etc.)....and it works very well, costs about $150 (~ 3% of what my portable spec analyzer costs) so if I drop it, it's no big deal!!!!
Using a cheap (~ $20) portable AM radio can be an effective way to track down problems.....heck you can even take it in the dinghy to see if there's interference else where...

Bay Pelican wrote:
Also does anyone have a recommendation for a good professional in St. Lucia, Grenada or Trinidad?
Sorry, I can't give you a personal recommendation, but hopefully with the above info you can find the problem yourself, or at least be able to determine if the guy you hire is any good....


I truly hope this helps....
Quote:
Marty,
I feel I should add a few more comments / hints.....

1) On board my boat, my only radio interference comes from my frig.....but that is NOT wideband noise / "static"......
My frig (an AB Cold Machine, w/ BD50 DanFoss compressor) makes lots of "birdies" across the HF bands......these are "radiated" by the compressor controller itself, and since my frig compressor is in the lazarette, along with my Icom AT-140 (and the GTO-15 antenna wire)....the close proximity of these makes getting rid of the interference difficult....
And unless I wish to spend the ~ $700 for the AB "RFI shielded and filtered" control board or remove my compressor unit and modify it myself, add chokes and feedthru caps, and build a shielding enclosure, etc. I'm resigned to just live with the minor inconvenience.....
Mostly the "birdies" are of no harm, but sometimes they're on the "wrong" frequency and interfere with my reception of a weak signal, and then I simply switch off the frig for a few minutes....

Bay Pelican wrote:We have been plagued by poor reception on our SSB/Ham radio since its installation.
Our problem is static. Even with what appears to be a dead boat the static drowns out the reception in many cases. For example we cannot hear/understand Chris Parker on many days here in the leewards even though our neighbors can.
2) I get the impression that you don't have too much experience with HF radio????
And, if that's the case, it IS possible that all is well and, depending on what radio you have, you may in fact just need to have your radio adjustments set-up correctly.....

Your ultimate goal here is to maximize your received signal-to-noise ratio (S/N).....
{I cannot write a treatise here about proper HF radio operation, but suffice to say that most times I hear people complain about their radio's receiver (not necessarily on board boats), it can be traced to their own improper operation of their radio.....sometimes it's as easy as reducing the signal+noise level, by reducing the RF gain and/or switching in attenuators, etc....and most times they won't do this......nor will they switch off their noise blankers, nor all sorts of features that they have no idea what they do, let alone know how to use them if they even do know....}

But, what I can easily recommend here:
a) use headphones....good communications headphones help a LOT!!!!
b) read the manual for radio....
c) don't listen too closely to what other "cruisers" tell you, instead seek out expert advice....
d) When asking questions, please give as much info as you can, since many will be willing to help, but won't waste their time on vague questions....


3) Other possibilities here are that your "neighbor's" (even if in the same anchorage), may be receiving better because of their antenna design and installation, and/or differences in the antenna counterpoises, and/or differences in radios, and/or differences in how each boat (and every system on board those boats) is wired, etc. etc. etc....



I hope this helps...

John

Here's a link to the thread.....
http://forum.ssca.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10939


I do hope all of my ramblings don't drown out the "good" stuff...


John
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