Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-06-2016, 05:09   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Boat: Lagoon 410 s2
Posts: 17
SSB on A Lgoon 450 F

Hi to all,

I'm searching for a place on a lagoon 450F to install SSB.
On the lagoon 410 I had the problem, that sending with the SSB affected the plotter a lot. I tried to isolate the cables but it didn't work.
Now I would like to avoid to have this problem and install the SSB not to close to the plotter.

Best regards

Wojdi
__________________

__________________
wojdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-06-2016, 13:09   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 1,699
Re: SSB on A Lgoon 450 F

if something was effecting the plotter it would be high power radidation from the antenna. or voltage drop issues if wired poorly and from same bus. the screen and main box can go anywhere.
__________________

__________________
smac999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2016, 05:47   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
Emerald Sea's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Live-aboard Cruiser
Boat: Lagoon 450
Posts: 571
SSB on A Lgoon 450 F

Our setup is such:
- Icom 801 head is located in one of the cubby holes next to the plotter. There is no interference.
- The Main Unit is located under the forward bench seat in the salon (do not use the radio and aircon at the same time - RF).
- The AT141 tuner is installed in the aft stbd room, under the bed boards, next to the fuel tank.
- We use a KISS ground cable that is run around in the sugarscoop area.
- The antenna is aft stbd.
Works fine. Need to turn off your fridge/freezer when using to reduce the RF.
Note you need to observe the connecting cable lengths and this will influence where you install the components ie 10m max between MU and tuner.

Please let me know how you get along?
__________________
Steve
SV Emerald Sea
L450
Emerald Sea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2016, 05:51   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Boat: Lagoon 410 s2
Posts: 17
Re: SSB on A Lgoon 450 F

Hi Steve,

this sounds great. Did you do some pictures?
Why you should not us AC and the unit at the same time?

fair winds

wojdi
__________________
wojdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2016, 06:42   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
Emerald Sea's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Live-aboard Cruiser
Boat: Lagoon 450
Posts: 571
Re: SSB on A Lgoon 450 F

Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByCruisers Sailing Forum1466425648.975153.jpg
Views:	75
Size:	40.6 KB
ID:	126607Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByCruisers Sailing Forum1466425685.295880.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	39.2 KB
ID:	126608

Ive not taken a photo of the tuner under the bed as its a bit of trouble to get at and Im sure you have a good imagination!

The AC driven aircon , when On, will cause noise over your radio when its on. So just turn it off for the time your on the HF. This also applies to the aircon in your stbd cabin.

Also regarding grounding. As mentioned we use a KISS counterpoise. I have also installed a copper strip from the tuner to the hulls grounding plate. Some 'experts' have told me this is not required and they are probably correct. I have used the radio with each ground arrangement, separately, with no appreciable change in tx/rx or noise reduction.

Steve
__________________
Steve
SV Emerald Sea
L450
Emerald Sea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2016, 07:44   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Boat: Lagoon 410 s2
Posts: 17
Re: SSB on A Lgoon 450 F

Hi Steve,

thanks a lot for the pics. looks really nice!
Now i can imagine how it is!!

Will send you some pice when installation will be done.

fair winds

wojdi
__________________
wojdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2016, 09:17   #7
Registered User
 
ka4wja's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 2,033
Re: SSB on A Lgoon 450 F

wojdi,
Steve (Emerald Sea) gave you good input for the specifics of your Lagoon 450....
But, please read what smac wrote again! As this is very good info!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by smac999 View Post
if something was effecting the plotter it would be high power radidation from the antenna. or voltage drop issues if wired poorly and from same bus. the screen and main box can go anywhere.
Not knowing what the exact problem your had with your plotter on the 410, caused by transmitting with your SSB radio, it's difficult to tell you what not to do on the 450!
But, smac gives you great info here...

1) Usually transmit RFI is getting into your other electronics on-board, from them (the other electronics) picking up your actual transmitted signal (from your SSB antenna)....it is usually all the long wires running from one instrument / display / sensor, to the others, that act as a receive antenna, and picks up a good deal of your transmitted energy...

The key here is to isolate ALL of your electronics wiring, as best you can....that means using clamp-on ferrites on ALL electronics wiring on-board (except the SSB antenna's GTO-15 wire), preferably on both ends of each wire....
Also, keeping all this wiring as far away from the SSB antenna as you can...
And, most importantly...have a good RF ground / Antenna ground for your SSB antenna!

Secondarily....although not far behind in actual practice...is to keep common-mode RF currents off of you SSB cables/wiring...
And, this means using a "line isolator" on the SSB coaxial cable, connected right at the tuner....
And, also using ferrites on the tuner control/power wiring, as well as on other wires/cables coming into/out-of the main SSB transceiver...(although it is rare for things like the main 12vdc power wires for the SSB and/or its speaker wiring, etc. to be a cause of transmit RFI, anything can happen, and ferrites are cheap, and you're going to be putting 'em on wires anyway, so why not do 'em all!)


2) Other possible "plotter problems" when transmitting on the SSB, could be a voltage drop on the 12vdc bus, and/or the 12vdc breaker/wiring going to the plotter....
This is common on many factory / dealer installed SSB radios on Beneteau's, Lagoon's, etc....as they typically do not wire the SSB radio directly to the batteries, rather to the breaker panel, etc., and allow the high current draw to cause a serious voltage drop in the main 12vdc bus...


So, in addition to taking Steve's input on where to mount the radio on a Lagoon 450, please don't forget the generic rules for proper SSB installation and wiring!!!
For all the details you could ever desire, please have a look at the "sticky" right at the top of the Marine Electronics page...(and follow the links there)...it's not really a "discussion", but rather a reference source...
Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, etc.)


Further, don't forget to have a look at the Sailmail Primer (which tells you a lot about avoiding RFI)...
https://sailmail.com/wp-content/uplo...2/smprimer.htm

https://sailmail.com/category/installation/
https://sailmail.com/category/proble...tallation-faq/

Quote:
Originally Posted by wojdi View Post
I'm searching for a place on a lagoon 450F to install SSB.
On the lagoon 410 I had the problem, that sending with the
SSB affected the plotter a lot. I tried to isolate the cables but it didn't work.
Now I would like to avoid to have this problem and install the SSB not to close to the plotter.

Best regards

Wojdi
3) Although you did have one on your old Lagoon 410, I'm not clear how much you used it, nor how well it worked...
So, now that you got the info on where and how to properly install and wire-up your new SSB radio....perhaps you'd like some info on how to use it more optimally??

If so, please have a look at these Youtube playlists...

HF-DSC Communications
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ga2zYuPozhUXZX


Maritime HF Communications (in general)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZDo_Jk3NB_Bt1y


Icom M-802 Instruction videos
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...rC-8QKVyMb4tVr


Offshore Weather
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...zdjTJjHlChruyY


Offshore Sailing
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...KgTCj15iyl6qoY



4) And, finally....while "any" antenna ground / rf ground will work to some extent (even none at all), it is all a matter of degree...i.e, how well does it work....especially compared to others and at what co$t...
So, before you spend the $$$ on the KISS....please have a look here...you'll learn a LOT (not the least of which is how poor the KISS actually works....and how you can make an artificial counterpoise that will work better than it, for < $5....)
Re: KISS-SSB Counterpoise



I do hope this helps..

fair winds..

John
__________________
John, KA4WJA
s/v Annie Laurie, WDB6927
MMSI# 366933110
ka4wja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 04:01   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Boat: Lagoon 410 s2
Posts: 17
Re: SSB on A Lgoon 450 F

Hi John,

thanks a lot for this information!
Our problem on the Lagoon 410 was the Isolation. No space to put the cables away from each other. This was the reason why i asked where to install the SSB on the 450. We crossed the atlantic and used our Icom 802 for weather and contact. It worked amazing and i can absolutely recommend it. Together with the shakespeare antenna 7m we didn't have any problems with downloads even if it took longer sometimes.

Looking forward to have it in the new 450 asweell!!

fair winds

wojdi
__________________

__________________
wojdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ssb

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, etc.) ka4wja Marine Electronics 66 07-12-2017 10:13
Hunter 450 Passage...A World Cruiser? xxuxx Monohull Sailboats 11 22-12-2009 05:09
Hunter 450 Passage Hard Steering mikepremiere Monohull Sailboats 0 01-06-2009 17:41



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:27.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.