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Old 07-08-2018, 10:20   #61
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Re: SSB HELP for SABA 50

I may have missed it but what appears to be missing here is the VERY poor propagation on the HF bands which may continue for many years. We are at the bottom of a poor sunspot cycle which was terrible at its peak.



If you're looking for someone to talk to, you are going to find more listening on the amateur bands than on HF bands. I'm pretty sure there is no longer a single commercial coastal station in the US.



If you're looking for safety, EPIR, SATCOM and then SSB.



I find sailors tend to pay the least attention to the very things that will do the most to save their lives if something bad happens. Great sailors, incredible navigators but that radio is something else.
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Old 07-08-2018, 12:32   #62
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Re: SSB HELP for SABA 50

Yes you might be missing something.
Yes we are at the end of the 11 year sun cycle and some believe cycle 25 has already started. However the best communications is not expected until ~2024.


Amateur frequencies are also HF. The only differences in Amateur and Marine HF are the frequencies assigned, Amateur allows use of LSB and marine only uses USB, unlike Amateur, Marine HF allows use of Digital calling for individuals, groups, commercial vessels, and GMDSS shore stations.



There is a US West Coast Station that has a separate transmitting and Receiving station. While keeping my M802 in DSC Watch 12-18 hours per day I have heard DSC distress calls answered by CA, VA, LA, and HI. In one case it was a Turkish Vessel in the Black Sea answered by Norfolk, VA. Many of the world countries only monitor the 2MHz DSC and 2182.0 voice. The US monitors both voice and DSC for the 4, 6, 8, 12, and 16 MHz frequencies. The US is the only country I have ever heard respond to the last over 20 distress calls I have heard from the Russian Coast to the Black Sea.


While sun spots/ HF is at it minimum long range at then min of the 11 solar year period, it still works. It may be more challenging to talk to stations around the world, but contacting a commercial vessel 100 miles away or a US shore station still works fine and will slowly get better as the solar cycle moves toward its peak in 2024.
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Old 07-08-2018, 13:50   #63
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Re: SSB HELP for SABA 50

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Originally Posted by Hoopla View Post
The decision making process between aquiring a 801e and 802 is quite simple for an Australian flagged vessel.Note the 801e for Europe and Australia used to be identical. That is no longer the case.

1. The 801 has a galvanicaly protected power supply the 802 doesn't.

2. The 801e has a sealed heat sink case with no fan. An 802 is unsealed with a cooling fan and more susceptible to salt laden moisture intrusion.

3. You require a Ships Station Licence that is attached to the ship before AMSA with either issue or attach a MMSI to that DSC device named by model and serial number. They will not accept a 802 or furnish a 802 with an MMSI.

4. If you don't require a HF for either GMDSS security or utilising the DSC polling function both requiring an MMSI then a 802 will suffice, albeit you are operating it contrary to regulation in terms of the Ship Station and Operator Licencing.

5. Communications regulations and enforcement attach to the ships country of registration, not the waters it sits in.

6. Note to the best of my knowledge the only countries that accept the 802 are the USA its territories and affiliates that follow things US. The USA use a dealer MMSI system for one off programming, not the user. Most other countries follow Euro standards or in other words the 801e not the 802. Australia employs a user MMSI multiple programming system independant of the dealer.

7. Australia like a lot of countries no one listens on Marine HF voice any more including commercial vessels, only DSC and for SOLAS vessels that is mandatory world wide over 300 tonne.
Thank You Hoopla, I came to all your points with my own research. I was a Ham, since the 1980's, and Maritime Mobile, and it was interesting to listen on the Nets.
And all the others that have contributed to this Topic.... Thank you.


I am having an Icom 801E installed today. I will also put in my last HAM rig, a Kenwood TS 50-S when I get home from the GBR in about November. Between the two I will have some interesting listening and a huge range of options for weather and such..

Thank you all for your input... SV Serenity, Saba 50, up in the Great Barrier Reef and now in Abell Point Marina...
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Old 07-08-2018, 17:59   #64
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Re: SSB HELP for SABA 50

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Thank You Hoopla, I came to all your points with my own research. I was a Ham, since the 1980's, and Maritime Mobile, and it was interesting to listen on the Nets.
And all the others that have contributed to this Topic.... Thank you.


I am having an Icom 801E installed today. I will also put in my last HAM rig, a Kenwood TS 50-S when I get home from the GBR in about November. Between the two I will have some interesting listening and a huge range of options for weather and such..

Thank you all for your input... SV Serenity, Saba 50, up in the Great Barrier Reef and now in Abell Point Marina...
Pleasure. The biggest decider for some is approved MMSI and GMDSS and for those that advocate just an EPIRB and a sat phone for the high seas and not a GMDSS compliant two communication device, my advice is note the following.

1. The lag time between EPIRB receipt and on water response is often measured in days not hours. False alarms is the genisus to this.

2. Managers of Rescue Coordination Centres (RCC) world wide recommend both a DSC HF and Sat Phone on account past incidents involving loss of life have often involved only having one or the other and it not working.

As for your HAM plans the 802 has an open mode for transmitting in ham radio bands. I'm not familiar with the latest Australian iteration of the 801e but if not, ask your dealer if he can make your 801e open mode. My guess is yes. Would be interested to know.

PS. I'm sure a good Instal but don't forget a seperate DSC recieve only antenna. A marine AM does the trick. I have seen many DSC HF instals sans that antenna.
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Old 07-08-2018, 21:39   #65
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Re: SSB HELP for SABA 50

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Yes we are at the end of the 11 year sun cycle and some believe cycle 25 has already started.
This graph is dated 2 days ago so my guess #25 might have started today.
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Old 09-08-2018, 04:22   #66
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Re: SSB HELP for SABA 50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoopla View Post
Pleasure. The biggest decider for some is approved MMSI and GMDSS and for those that advocate just an EPIRB and a sat phone for the high seas and not a GMDSS compliant two communication device, my advice is note the following.

1. The lag time between EPIRB receipt and on water response is often measured in days not hours. False alarms is the genisus to this.

...............
I would be very interested to know how you make the link between false alarms and the on water response time.

I've been involved with SAR and EPIRB technology in various ways for decades and I have never heard of such a claim nor can I see any valid argument to support it however I am always ready to learn more...
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Old 10-08-2018, 20:36   #67
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Re: SSB HELP for SABA 50

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I would be very interested to know how you make the link between false alarms and the on water response time.

I've been involved with SAR and EPIRB technology in various ways for decades and I have never heard of such a claim nor can I see any valid argument to support it however I am always ready to learn more...
Very simply world wide "false alarms make up around 95% of EPIRB alerts. The number of "false alarms" increases daily as more EPIRB's are employed. This fatigues and dulls the SAR system and therefore the response time. The cause of "false alarms" vary between stupidity (disposing to landfill, incorrect testing), incorrect mounting or even bracket failure.

Response time varies enormously world wide remembering different countries have different SAR infrastructure and some with enormous SAR area coverage and noting on the high seas an EPIRB elert is first referred to the RCC for the country of registration or by HEX code. The latter useful if unregistered, useless if EPIRB purchased in another country. Some countries recieve between 5 and 10 EPIRB alerts per day.

Most "false alarms" are solved by RCC's with good
investigation and detective work.

That investigation has to ignore time zones and that detective time will depend on things ranging from registration, and if so it being current and whether a voyage plan has been registered, direct contact with vessel being available, knowledge of vessels movements by nominated contact person's etc. In some cases "false alarms" are not solved.

It is under this background of "false alarms" that decisons have to be made before committing resources which depending on location can involve hundreds of thousands of dollars in direct expenditure either by RCC's, their SAR arm such defence forces or specialist organisations like the USCG and commercial/SOLAS shipping if in the area.

With that in mind the probability of a EPIRB alert not being a "false alarm" has to be maximised and that takes time before those "on water" resources are employed .

I hope that answers your question.
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