Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-03-2012, 14:53   #1
Senior Cruiser
 
mikereed100's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Santa Barbara
Boat: 46' custom cat
Posts: 1,572
Images: 2
Squall Detection, Pulse Radar vs Broadband?

According to the sales literature, pulse is better at weather detection, but I would like to hear from those who have used both. Is there a significant difference? Not having played with radar for decades and never having owned one myself I am curious as to how effective it is for tracking squalls at night and if broadband is usefull in this regard. I am thinking specifically of Furuno 1715 vs 3G as I am on a strict electronics budget.
Thanks,
Mike
__________________

__________________
Mike

www.sailblogs.com/member/rumdoxy

Come to the dark side. We have cookies.
mikereed100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2012, 16:51   #2
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?

Yep. Me too most interested in opinions. On the older types seen rain squalls but hard to detect dry ones any time.

b.
__________________

__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2012, 17:26   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
mikereed100's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Santa Barbara
Boat: 46' custom cat
Posts: 1,572
Images: 2
Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?

This is from the Lowrance site:

Ballpark Distances

Wide weather front with heavy rain
8-15nm
9-17nm

Dense rain cell 100mm/hr
7-13nm
8-15nm

Heavy shower 25mm/hr
2.5-5.5nm
3-6nm

Light Rain
1.3-2.6nm
1.5-3nm


The format didn't translate, but the top number is 3G, the bottom is 4G
__________________
Mike

www.sailblogs.com/member/rumdoxy

Come to the dark side. We have cookies.
mikereed100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2012, 17:36   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,363
Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?

With old school radar, leaving Samana D.R. for Puerto Rico (forget the distance, but it's a ways! 60+ miles?) I easily saw the thunder squalls off the end of Puerto Rico all night. Tracked them if they moved my direction. They are dense, angry and in the air so you can see them many miles away beyond your Radar's rating... Also readily tracked small waterspouts in the Gulfstream... If it's "dry" over water.. wont it be detectable by sea state?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2012, 18:21   #5
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?

The professional weather radars are all pulse Doppler radars. They use Doppler effect to discriminate between moving (weather) and static (non-weather) echo's. Frequency: S-band is best and most expensive. Shorter wavelengths limit range.

ciao!
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2012, 20:51   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,947
Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikereed100 View Post
According to the sales literature, pulse is better at weather detection, but I would like to hear from those who have used both. Is there a significant difference? Not having played with radar for decades and never having owned one myself I am curious as to how effective it is for tracking squalls at night and if broadband is usefull in this regard. I am thinking specifically of Furuno 1715 vs 3G as I am on a strict electronics budget.
Thanks,
Mike
Never used pulse radar, but have used conventional radar many times to track squalls. It has been quite effective in my experience. You just have to play with the filters/gain a bit to get what you want.

One caution, don't get so caught up in tracking the weather that you forget about what else might be inside of that system -- like a freighter! I dial my filters/gain down periodically so I can see what other targets might be hiding in there.
__________________
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2012, 21:38   #7
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,576
Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?

Good point on the "forest versus the trees" aspect of active radar usage.

A radar installer told me that for offshore, I would be better with a pulse radar for range, but for coastal detail, he prefers the broadband. Obviously, we would have to be discussing otherwise identical installations.
__________________
Can't sleep? Read www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com for fast relief. Can't read? Avoid www.volumesofsalt.blogspot.com, because it's just personal reviews of sea books.
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2012, 22:23   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,061
Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?

I have broadband radar and my old pulse radar was better at rain detection. Broadband is better at seeing through it, and for close target resolution. A big boat would benefit from both aboard.
__________________
SailFastTri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2012, 06:50   #9
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Never used pulse radar, but have used conventional radar many times to track squalls.
"Conventional" radar, as far as I'm concerned, *is* pulse radar Many will argue that because of the radar subject , but every Furuno, Garmin, Raymarine etc. aboard yachts is a pulse radar.

ciao!
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2012, 07:39   #10
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2005
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 4,583
Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?

One thing to consider is the difference between 2kw and 4kw small boat radar. In dense thunder storms 4kw will give you a much better view of what is in the storm area and how thick the cells are. At times you can't go around them but you can head through the thinnest part.
__________________
Paul L
http://svjeorgia.blogspot.com
Paul L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2012, 09:30   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,947
Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
"Conventional" radar, as far as I'm concerned, *is* pulse radar Many will argue that because of the radar subject , but every Furuno, Garmin, Raymarine etc. aboard yachts is a pulse radar.

ciao!
Nick.
Yet another subject to learn more about...that's what keeps sailing interesting. Most of the units I have used are older Furuno or Raymarine so maybe I've used "pulse" and didn't know it.
__________________
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2012, 09:40   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailFastTri View Post
I have broadband radar and my old pulse radar was better at rain detection. Broadband is better at seeing through it, and for close target resolution. A big boat would benefit from both aboard.
YEAH! Wouldn't that be nice!
So, I guess it comes down to what's ones priority, objects vs weather. I like the idea of low power consumption, but would like to see the storm heads as well. Been reading the weather for years w/o radar so I think I would prefer the low power consumption. It's hard to "have your cake and eat it too"
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2012, 09:42   #13
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,038
Images: 4
Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?

In crossing the Gulf of Maine a few years ago we easily tracked thunderstorms approaching from the west on our green-screen CRT Furuno 1832 radar (4KW with 24" radome).

We were able to pick the thinnest part and pass thru nicely...were surprised it worked so well!

Bill
__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2012, 09:46   #14
Registered User
 
LeaseOnLife's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: out cruising again
Boat: Sailboat
Posts: 1,046
Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailFastTri
I have broadband radar and my old pulse radar was better at rain detection. Broadband is better at seeing through it, and for close target resolution. A big boat would benefit from both aboard.
Thanks for the direct comparison!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L
One thing to consider is the difference between 2kw and 4kw small boat radar. In dense thunder storms 4kw will give you a much better view of what is in the storm area and how thick the cells are. At times you can't go around them but you can head through the thinnest part.
Agreed: With the 2kW we were able to see the front edge of a squall, not much further. We upgraded to a 4kW (old style, pulse) and the difference to seeing into bad weather is very noticeable. We can now see other boats in the squalls (after tweaking FTC and RAIN parameters)


Dirk
__________________
LeaseOnLife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2012, 10:36   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montegut LA.
Boat: Now we need to get her to Louisiana !! she's ours
Posts: 3,421
Re: Squall Detection, Pulse Radar vs Broadband?

Ive never had a NEW radar system LOL only the old ctr greenie LOL and never had any trouble seeing and tracking storm fronts, rain squalls ect also birds if ya trimm it up a little ! Whats the big difference?? Im really asking cus Im sure not gonna have that type on the new boat when we find it !
__________________

__________________
Bob and Connie
bobconnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
broadband, radar

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Revere Offshore Elite vs Viking RescYou Life Rafts Ocean Roads Health, Safety & Related Gear 23 04-11-2016 19:01
Opinions: Selene vs Kadey Krogen tinped Powered Boats 13 26-03-2012 22:49
Squall Detection, Pulse Radar vs Broadband? mikereed100 Marine Electronics 24 17-03-2012 20:11
Seaview Mast Mount Radar Levelers Safari38LH Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 2 14-03-2012 23:52
Powder Coating vs Galvanizing ? avb3 Anchoring & Mooring 29 14-03-2012 08:05



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.