SpaceX launching 60 Starlink Sats Tomorrow!

[handmer]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

If they both provide that service they are then both competitors of each other.

To answer your very reasonable question with some actual detail...

Yes, they are competitors, but only in some aspects of their overall services.

The original Iridium network was basically a handheld CB sized phone that would work anywhere in the world, with extremely limited data services (SMS/email). So you can have it in your backpack and go adventuring etc. You can also get personal trackers for emergencies, and a whole host of other things such as remote flood warnings etc.

Starlink is data only, and requires a pizza boxed sized antenna mounted on a flat surface. So no handheld devices without a nearby mini ground station. Think houses, RVs, boats, planes, buses, remote outposts etc. With enough satellites, they will have the bandwidth to compete with your local ISP for home internet. That said, Starlinks core business will likely be high bandwidth backhaul for ISPs, competing with existing optical fibre.

The current Iridium network upgrades will keep voice communications, but also improve their data capabilities. They still have limits to the bandwidth, so won’t really be targeting home users who have existing options. So while Starlink and Iridium won’t compete for phone style voice and data communications, they will compete for data links to boats, planes, remote outposts etc.

So they both have core functionality that the other doesn't. But they also have some cross over in their services that mean they do compete. Likely Iridium will have enough users who need its compact form factor for data links that the network won’t see significant customer loss in the future from competition with Starlink.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by N3VR L8

They are not competition for Iridium, period.

They may end up being competition for VSAT providers though.

Just repeating yourself doesn't help. Why are they different. How are they different? What are the differences in the service they provide to an end user? Is one faster than the other? Cheaper than the other? Have better coverage, and if so, where and where not?

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by GordMay

A little history on LEO space comms:
In 1987 Motorola engineers came up with the idea of a space-based communications network, at a time when cellular coverage was sketchy, analogue and distinctly regional.
In 1993 Motorola announced its $3.7bn Iridium concept – an ambitious constellation of 77 low earth orbit (LEO) satellites providing global mobile voice communications to $3,000 handsets. Why Iridium? Because the element Iridium has 77 protons.
The design then changed to 66 satellites, but the name stuck.
Iridium launched its fleet in 1997 and began operation in 1998.
Unfortunately by then, GSM was already the de facto global system for mobile.
Iridium filed for bankruptcy protection in 1999.
In 1991 Globalstar was created as a joint venture between Qualcomm and spacecraft manufacturer Loral (later Alcatel and Vodafone would invest). They envisaged a constellation of 48 LEO satellites and planned to sell access to local terrestrial service providers; the business was costed at $1.8bn but soon rocketed to $2.2bn.
A launch failure in 1998 meant the loss of 12 satellites and commercial service was delayed to 2000.
Globalstar filed for bankruptcy protection in 2002.
In 1995 Teledesic proposed a $9bn constellation of 840 LEO satellites, providing 720Mbit/s downlink speeds and 100Mbit/s uplink speeds. The original “Internet in the Sky” was led by telecoms veteran Craig McCaw and backed by Microsoft’s Paul Allen.
Teledesic never achieved its 2001 launch date, and went out of business in 2002.
ICO was created by Inmarsat as a $2.6bn medium earth orbit (MEO) system of 10 satellites, focused on expanding cellular coverage to under-served areas of the world.
It never entered commercial service, despite later investment from McCaw and a proposed merger with Teledesic.
ICO filed for bankruptcy protection in 1999.
Odyssey was a $3.2bn MEO business created by Teleglobe and TRW in 1991 with 12 active satellites planned, with service scheduled to commence in 2000.
Odyssey gave up and merged with ICO in 1997.
SkyBridge was developed by Alcatel in 1997 and planned a constellation of 80 LEO satellites at a cost of $3.5bn (soon rising to $6bn).
SkyBridge gave up in 2002.
In 2008 Google invested in O3b Networks, but the company was acquired by Luxembourg satellite company SES a year later. Founder Greg Wyler left to join Google, but soon quit to form WordVu Satellites (also known as L5).
WordVu acquired the spectrum licence previously held by SkyBridge and planned two constellations, each of 180 LEO satellites, for commercial launch in 2019 at cost of $3bn.
In 2014 it emerged that WorldVu had established relations with Elon Musk, although there was no formal deal with SpaceX, and WorldVu changed its name to OneWeb.
In November 2014, Musk confirmed via a tweet that “SpaceX is still in the early stages of developing advanced micro-satellites operating in large formations.”
In 2015 OneWeb secured funding from Virgin Group and Qualcomm to build and launch a planned constellation of 650 LEO satellites.
Days later, SpaceX announced its LEO plan, focused on ISP and backhaul with a constellation of 4,000 satellite and a commercial launch date of 2020. Apparently Musk and Wyler agreed to disagree and go their separate ways.
In 2016 OneWeb revised its plan to add a further 2,000 V-band satellites in non-geosynchronous orbits, having secured $1bn from SoftBank a few months earlier.
In 2017 OneWeb merged with Intelsat with a $1.7bn investment from SoftBank. Wyler testified at a US Senate Committee Hearing that manufacturing will commence this year, as will the first launch of 10 satellites with Arianespace in May (and later Blue Origin and Virgin Galactic). He said the service will offer up to 2.5Gbit/s direct to homes, and plans to fully bridge the digital divide by 2027”.

Which brings us to StarLink in 2018/2019

This time it will work. I promise.

[RaymondR]

Musk might be willing to take a loss on the satellite service to provide custom for his space launch service.

[Chotu]

How does one get permission to destroy the sky, littering it with 12,000 reflective objects?

Goodbye ground based astronomy.

[B23iL23]

Originally Posted by Chotu

How does one get permission to destroy the sky, littering it with 12,000 reflective objects?

Goodbye ground based astronomy.

Where do you get 120,000 from?

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Chotu

How does one get permission to destroy the sky, littering it with 12,000 reflective objects?

Goodbye ground based astronomy.

I'm more concerned with all the lights on streets, parking lots and buildings. Light pollution is rarely considered when designing these things, and few places have regulations on it.

But I don't get too worked up over it. Musk's satellites will de-orbit in far less time than all the power lines, cell towers and other "ugly" infrastructure we all depend on fall down. And is there anything uglier than a city or suburb?

Much as I'd love to have an unspoiled wilderness view everywhere, I'm not ready to go back to the stone age, or ask billions of my fellow humans to leave this planet to achieve that.

I think we'll always have a love-hate relationship with our technology.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by N3VR L8

Never mind the fact that SpaceX is launching 60 satellites with no interlink whatsoever, they are nowhere near ready to have a functional constellation. IMO.

The Interlink is not necessary for land based applications. The workable footprint of these satellites should be about 500km radius. This means that they can pick up your signal and beam it to a land station with Internet access within this radius.

Satellite Interlinks are necessary for two applications. Ships and fast connections across the world for well paying customers who want to shave milliseconds of cable connections. Stock Exchanges for example.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by MartinR

Satellite Interlinks are necessary for two applications. Ships and fast connections across the world for well paying customers who want to shave milliseconds of cable connections. Stock Exchanges for example.

They are also needed for many small islands and remote locations all over the world with no telecommunications infrastructure.

The light pollution is only for a short time after sunset and before sunrise. The satellites do not produce light, they only reflect it.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by stormalong

They are also needed for many small islands and remote locations all over the world with no telecommunications infrastructure.

The light pollution is only for a short time after sunset and before sunrise. The satellites do not produce light, they only reflect it.

Of course. And SpaceX has said that they will look into improving the satellites Albedo. This is maybe as easy as painting them black, maybe not - as they have to manage heat - but I am sure there is a solution.

[Chotu]

Just a couple of thoughts straight from astronomers....

On his Twitter page, astronomer Alex Parker shared why the Starlink launch gives him “pause.”

“They’re bright, and there are going to be a lot of them,” he tweeted. “If SpaceX launches all 12,000, they will outnumber stars visible to the naked eye.”



Parker, deputy director of the Astronomical Society Robery Massey suggests the satellites are a form of cosmic pollution. “Imagine the outcry at similar desecration of a terrestrial environment,” says Massey. “Is @elonmusk at all bothered?”


Ronald Drimmel of the Turin Astrophysical Observatory in Italy did not mince words, telling Forbes, “Starlink, and other mega constellations, would ruin the sky for everyone on the planet.”

[ben2go]

This system in conjunction with buoys could give us real-time sea and weather conditions. That would go a long way to keeping boaters and seamen safe. I'm trying to stay positive with all this stuff floating around above our heads. I'm 42. In my lifetime, I'm expecting to see space junk landing around me before my time is up.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Chotu

How does one get permission to destroy the sky, littering it with 12,000 reflective objects?
Goodbye ground based astronomy.

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Where do you get 120,000 from?

From where do YOU get 120,000?

[UFO]

You should be more concerned with all the 5G repeaters that are going to pop up Everywhere and Fry Everyone and Everything.



Except at sea that is

Originally Posted by Chotu

How does one get permission to destroy the sky, littering it with 12,000 reflective objects?

Goodbye ground based astronomy.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by UFO

You should be more concerned with all the 5G repeaters that are going to pop up Everywhere and Fry Everyone and Everything.



Except at sea that is

I think 5G will only be an Urban thing, and to my knowledge the only concern is that they operate on a frequency very close to NOAA’s satellites use to detect water vapor I believe
https://www.wired.com/story/5g-netwo...ng-into-chaos/