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Old 15-05-2019, 14:20   #16
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Re: SpaceX launching 60 Starlink Sats Tomorrow!

I would love it, but will believe it when it's actually operational, has broad coverage, and pricing is clear. In my experience these things take much, much longer to really come to fruition than what's hyped, and many never materialize to anything close to what's promised.
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Old 15-05-2019, 14:20   #17
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Re: SpaceX launching 60 Starlink Sats Tomorrow!

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Looking forward to the pricing of it!!
I think it'll be reasonable, with that many satellites they will have to rely on volume, thus available to the masses.
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Old 15-05-2019, 16:39   #18
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Re: SpaceX launching 60 Starlink Sats Tomorrow!

Don’t equate masses with price. I’m paying a hundred dollars a month for satellite tv. I’m paying 80 dollars a month for high speed Internet. That is great technology and ... to me... crazy
Prices.
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Old 15-05-2019, 17:20   #19
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Re: SpaceX launching 60 Starlink Sats Tomorrow!

With a plan that big/expensive they must want to dominate the broadband market world wide, I don't think it will work unless they are competitive in all ways.

Will it drift in and out or be cloud cover susceptible. Is 4g fast enough, they are talking 5g here now.

I wonder how you will engage the service. Will you go to Mr Spacely Enterprises and sign up directly or go to your normal service provider and contract through them?

I hope it is directly, it would be very satisfying to give all the providers here the flick.
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Old 15-05-2019, 18:23   #20
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Re: SpaceX launching 60 Starlink Sats Tomorrow!

This sounds promising within the US and International waters. However, if might not sit will within Intranational waters. Landing rights is a sticky subject on the International scene.

I fear though that working in any band but L will induce many outages for the boater. On top of that, one will have very limited time to access the satellite, maybe 10 minutes or less depending on the viewing angle. Then there is the issue of hand-off. Probably anything less that 30° will be unusable. Then, there is the issue of store and forward as most satellites will not be able to see an earth station until they are over some type of land mass.

Never substitute speed for accuracy.

So many issues, besides all the junk that is in orbit now.
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Old 15-05-2019, 21:46   #21
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Re: SpaceX launching 60 Starlink Sats Tomorrow!

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This sounds promising within the US and International waters. However, if might not sit will within Intranational waters. Landing rights is a sticky subject on the International scene.

I fear though that working in any band but L will induce many outages for the boater. On top of that, one will have very limited time to access the satellite, maybe 10 minutes or less depending on the viewing angle. Then there is the issue of hand-off. Probably anything less that 30° will be unusable. Then, there is the issue of store and forward as most satellites will not be able to see an earth station until they are over some type of land mass.

Never substitute speed for accuracy.

So many issues, besides all the junk that is in orbit now.
Brian, these will be a mesh network so satellites will relay the traffic through the other satellites.
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Old 15-05-2019, 22:23   #22
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Re: SpaceX launching 60 Starlink Sats Tomorrow!

Then kiss latency goodbye. The purpose of these satellites is to provide service to areas that are too costly for terrestrial connectivity. But, in that case there will be some areas maybe one footprint away to a gateway. Out at sea, one might have to traverse multiple hops before landing at an earth station. Then, multiple hand offs for the return path, possibly on a different bird.

I know I sound like I am bashing this new technology. I am not. I am just trying to get everyone to really think about this. This system is for terrestrial user, not seaborn. It probably will be usable, but not as described for the land based user.

JMHO
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Old 15-05-2019, 23:27   #23
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Re: SpaceX launching 60 Starlink Sats Tomorrow!

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I know I sound like I am bashing this new technology. I am not. I am just trying to get everyone to really think about this. This system is for terrestrial user, not seaborn. It probably will be usable, but not as described for the land based user.

JMHO
How are you coming to a conclusion who it's for when you don't understand the technology? Actually... you'll fit in well on these boards.

It's actually PERFECT for boaters.

Users will buy a Phase array antenna that can transmit to a satellite overhead. The satellite uses a laser link to nearby satellites and can hop to the other side of the globe in less than 6 hops where the final satellite transmits to a receiving phase array antenna. With the low altitude orbit and laser link, latency will compete with fiber. By the way, the phase array antenna is PERFECT for a boater. Think of a pizza box shaped antenna that has no moving parts, no gimbals or tracking, and lays flat.

FYI for those interested, Starlink is Elon's plan to fund Martian colonization. SpaceX is very profitable, but being a global internet provider that can compete with any local carrier as well as serving so many new remote customers will give him the cash flow to pursue this dream.
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Old 16-05-2019, 00:49   #24
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Re: SpaceX launching 60 Starlink Sats Tomorrow!

There are some technical hurdles still to overcome, the laser links are not tested and phased array antennas need to be refined to work well on rolling ships. The 60 satellites that are launched now have no laser links, but I guess they rely on Ku/Ka band coms to talk to each other.

But all in all, this is a very promising development and I am sure SpaceX can pull this off.
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Old 16-05-2019, 02:04   #25
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Re: SpaceX launching 60 Starlink Sats Tomorrow!

A really interesting story is the book about the Iridium network - how it ended in disaster for Motorola - they wanted to turn the sats off and let them all crash back to earth - but couldnt because one person saved the day

I think its called Eccentric Orbits and by John Bloom

Great reading when the wind doesnt blow

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Old 16-05-2019, 04:01   #26
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Re: SpaceX launching 60 Starlink Sats Tomorrow!

According to an article in 4 May New Scientist their projections are 40 million subscribers and $30 billion in revenue by 2025 with 12,000 Starlink satellites. 6 year satellite life and replacement rate of 5 per day. Mind boggling sort of stuff.
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Old 16-05-2019, 04:49   #27
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Re: SpaceX launching 60 Starlink Sats Tomorrow!

Elon Musk's SpaceX have postponed the first Starlink launch of internet satellites due to excessive upper level winds. Teams are working toward tomorrow's backup launch window, which opens at 10.30pm EDT (Friday, 5/17/2019).


“... they will be able to rapidly ramp to $50 billion per year in revenue. This revenue would be more than double NASA’s annual budget...”
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2018/1...-per-year.html
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Old 16-05-2019, 06:54   #28
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Re: SpaceX launching 60 Starlink Sats Tomorrow!

I understand the technology all to well having worked with satellite communications my whole civilian work life. What we are falling into is marketing hype. Elon et al are trying their best to sell something with promises of super duper high speed. Better and faster than baseband or fiber optics. How did they test this? I read that they put a couple of satellites in orbit, ran some data through them, and voila, we have a working system. I also worked on steerable beam Fresnel lens antennas used on aircraft.

Go for it. Really. I would love to see this work. But there has always been a battle between terrestrial- and space-born communications.

Oh, and my conclusion as to who it is for is based on documentation released by the companies trying to sell this. They specifically stated areas not covered by terrestrial connectivity or regions that cannot or will not provide "high tech services". I worked for a company that tried this years ago with GEO birds by installing "internet booths". The technology worked, but the concept of pushing the technology on groups or regions did not.

I am sure that the technology has advanced since I was working in the field. We were always trying to produce a better product than our competitors. I have run many tests on different antenna types and modulation schemes. Some worked, many did not. Technology changes, I get that. Marketing does not change.

All of this is JMHO so I feel it best that I recuse myself from further discussion. Happy sailing.
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Old 16-05-2019, 11:42   #29
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Re: SpaceX launching 60 Starlink Sats Tomorrow!

Brian's skepticism is certainly warranted, there have been attempts by folks with deep pockets to launch satellite internet for years. From a recent interview: Musk on #Starlink: "This is one of the hottest engineering projects I’ve ever seen done."

But this is from the guy that's not just launched 70+ rockets but SpaceX has landed many. In the ocean. So I'd expect what ever the plans, they have some idea of what's useful and workable out on the ocean.
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Old 16-05-2019, 14:14   #30
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Re: SpaceX launching 60 Starlink Sats Tomorrow!

I missed the launch last night. Now I hear they did not launch. It has been rescheduled for tonight 1930 EDT. I love to watch the Falcon launch and landings. Absolutely brilliant.
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