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Old 17-08-2013, 22:40   #46
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Re: So, Why do I need a Ham License in Mexico?

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post

Ham radio is really great for long distance sailors because you can talk with other hams thousands of miles away. There is also a bunch of Hams who use line of sight radio frequencies that can span long distances over land via repeaters. It's a neat hobby for a sailor. Like any hobby, you can drop a fortune on the equipment if you have the inclination. You can also get world wide coverage investing as little as a boat unit.
Also, I'll add that a land based Ham can do a phone patch for you if he has the simple equipment needed.
I wonder if we have contacted one another in the past Peter...N6FAI
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Old 18-08-2013, 06:04   #47
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Re: So, Why do I need a Ham License in Mexico?

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Glad Rebel Heart posted this! I read that the UN oversees the HAM. I thought, even though we are getting our license here in US, it was an international license. Stupid, I know. In all my travels, I never heard anyone mentioning they had to do this when in a new port.
In general, you should assume that you need a local license to operate abroad. Luckily there are many countries where you don't need to get in contact with the local authorities provided you carry the proper papers. See CEPT and IARP
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Old 18-08-2013, 11:58   #48
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Re: So, Why do I need a Ham License in Mexico?

Roverhi posted the clearest and non-technical explaination of SSB vs HAM vs HF marine radio I've every read... well done Rover! Phil
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Old 18-08-2013, 18:26   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean Girl View Post
Glad Rebel Heart posted this! I read that the UN oversees the HAM. I thought, even though we are getting our license here in US, it was an international license. Stupid, I know. In all my travels, I never heard anyone mentioning they had to do this when in a new port.

Anyways, we take the tech class next weekend. The more I pre study for the class, the more I can see me becoming a total ham nerd .
The primary amateur licensing s CEPT , a European body,

The following countries outside of Europe also participate in CEPT
Australia,
Canada,
Israel,
Netherlands Antilles,
New Zealand,
Peru,
South Africa, and,
The United States.

Hence within CEPT there is a reciprocal recognition and there is no need to apply for a local license

In north and South America you can get a IARP license on application

Amateurs can find a list of the countries which accept an IARP at http://www.oas.org/juridico/english/treaties/a-62.html They are: Argentina, Brazil, Canada, El Salvador, Panama, Peru, Trinidad and Tobago, United States of America, Uruguay, and Venezuela.

Unfortunately Mexico isn't a participant .
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Old 18-08-2013, 18:35   #50
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The treaty also states that hams may not use ship's radio stations for their hobby; in Europe this is strictly interpreted, so marine SSBs cannot be opened up for use on the ham bands, while in the US this is interpreted to only apply to vessels with mandatory carriage requirements. So much of what is codified in the FCC rules is actually the result of international negotiations that result in the current treaty.

Greg

That's not correct. A ships station ,US , EU or otherwise is a license to use a particular set of equipment to do a particular set of tasks.

The law as far as I can tell is the same in the US as in say Europe. Both have type approved equipment , so as far as I am aware no manufacture sells marine SSB opened up for ham in the US ( ie shipped in the box opened up) , a dealer , or you yourself can do so. ( which is exactly the same in Europe)

Dave
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Old 18-08-2013, 23:44   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post

The primary amateur licensing s CEPT , a European body,

The following countries outside of Europe also participate in CEPT
Australia,
Canada,
Israel,
Netherlands Antilles,
New Zealand,
Peru,
South Africa, and,
The United States.

Hence within CEPT there is a reciprocal recognition and there is no need to apply for a local license

In north and South America you can get a IARP license on application

Amateurs can find a list of the countries which accept an IARP at http://www.oas.org/juridico/english/treaties/a-62.html They are: Argentina, Brazil, Canada, El Salvador, Panama, Peru, Trinidad and Tobago, United States of America, Uruguay, and Venezuela.

Unfortunately Mexico isn't a participant .
The U.S. and Canada are not in CEPT, but have decent reciprocal operating agreements with most CEPT countries. The only thing is CEPT doesn't recognize a U.S. General license either at all, or as equivalent to the CEPT Novice license with extremely limited privileges (almost no HF for example). So you need an Extra class license to operate in those CEPT countries that have reciprocity with the U.S.
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Old 18-08-2013, 23:56   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post

That's not correct. A ships station ,US , EU or otherwise is a license to use a particular set of equipment to do a particular set of tasks.

The law as far as I can tell is the same in the US as in say Europe. Both have type approved equipment , so as far as I am aware no manufacture sells marine SSB opened up for ham in the US ( ie shipped in the box opened up) , a dealer , or you yourself can do so. ( which is exactly the same in Europe)

Dave
It's forbidden by FCC rules to use a ship's radio station for ham radio. The reason is so that this essential safety equipment is not tied up by some ham chewing the rag with his buddies. I don't know the rules in Europe, but I would be surprised if they are different. I have no idea whether this is enforced in case of non-mandatory installations. I doubt it. The Icom M802 is sold over the counter in the US open for transmission on ham bands.
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Old 19-08-2013, 15:06   #53
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Re: So, Why do I need a Ham License in Mexico?

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
That's not correct. A ships station ,US , EU or otherwise is a license to use a particular set of equipment to do a particular set of tasks.

The law as far as I can tell is the same in the US as in say Europe. Both have type approved equipment , so as far as I am aware no manufacture sells marine SSB opened up for ham in the US ( ie shipped in the box opened up) , a dealer , or you yourself can do so. ( which is exactly the same in Europe)

Dave
No Dave, I don't think right here. Close though. Sets sold into the US market usually have the ability to be opened up to the ham bands (and often all bands). With some older designs this was accomplished by changing the firmware but most modern sets have a simpler way that a user can enable the expanded frequencies for transmission. The EU forbids this practice! Sets sold into the EU are not allowed to have the ability for a user to open up the non-marine frequencies, and dealers are not allowed to install firmware that adds this ability. That is part of the distinction between the Icom M801 and the M802. The M802 is sold into the US and is easily opened up to ham use; it is not approved in the EU, and from what I understand licenses will not be granted for that model. The M801 is the EU version and does not have that same ability to open up, among other changes (some probably for the better).

Greg
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Old 19-08-2013, 16:51   #54
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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post

The U.S. and Canada are not in CEPT, but have decent reciprocal operating agreements with most CEPT countries. The only thing is CEPT doesn't recognize a U.S. General license either at all, or as equivalent to the CEPT Novice license with extremely limited privileges (almost no HF for example). So you need an Extra class license to operate in those CEPT countries that have reciprocity with the U.S.
No the stated countries specifically operate cept Tr 61-01 cross recognition. They do not have individual agreements with individual cept countries. That's what I mean when I said participate in cept.

Dave
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Old 19-08-2013, 16:55   #55
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Originally Posted by CarinaPDX View Post

No Dave, I don't think right here. Close though. Sets sold into the US market usually have the ability to be opened up to the ham bands (and often all bands). With some older designs this was accomplished by changing the firmware but most modern sets have a simpler way that a user can enable the expanded frequencies for transmission. The EU forbids this practice! Sets sold into the EU are not allowed to have the ability for a user to open up the non-marine frequencies, and dealers are not allowed to install firmware that adds this ability. That is part of the distinction between the Icom M801 and the M802. The M802 is sold into the US and is easily opened up to ham use; it is not approved in the EU, and from what I understand licenses will not be granted for that model. The M801 is the EU version and does not have that same ability to open up, among other changes (some probably for the better).

Greg
There is no restriction in ETSI thpe approval that forbids dealers or users modifying radios to Tx or Tx on other frequencies. In fact all over Europe various handhelds are sold that with the right software can be changed to other frequencies.

The icom 802 was never sold in the Eu because it is not a true class D hf set and therefor did not meet ETSI GMDSS specifications.

To my knowledge icom America never ships the 802 with the bands opened up. A dealer or user has to do it.

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Old 19-08-2013, 17:34   #56
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Re: So, Why do I need a Ham License in Mexico?

...can we...can we, all get along?...

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Old 19-08-2013, 17:37   #57
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Re: So, Why do I need a Ham License in Mexico?

Again, not quite what I am getting at. The M802 can be easily opened up by the user for all frequencies; are you claiming the (closely related) M801 can be? I doubt it. Yes of course radios CAN be changed for different services; my point is that "type accepted" (to use the FCC term) radios intended for CE approval for marine band SSB use by EU flagged vessels don't come with that capability at this time. In the past dealers were quite happy to change the firmware in the M700 to accomplish this, and again it is my understanding that authorized dealers of marine band SSBs in the EU are prohibited from that practice now. That is what I learned while in Europe. Of course I may have got bad info, or my memory may be playing tricks, but I don't think so. If you disagree then please provide the code for opening up an M801 or the name of an authorized Icom dealer who is willing to put in US firmware to an EU version M700 as a counterexample.

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Old 19-08-2013, 17:40   #58
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Re: So, Why do I need a Ham License in Mexico?

Actually, I think we are getting along Teknav. We both like to get things exactly right, but I don't think there is anything like personal animosity - just well argued positions. FWIW we are in discussions on other threads at this time as well. Mostly we are in agreement, and I will defer to Dave on most things - he seems to have encyclopedic knowledge. But the little disagreements are interesting to study...

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Old 19-08-2013, 19:57   #59
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Actually, I think we are getting along Teknav. We both like to get things exactly right, but I don't think there is anything like personal animosity - just well argued positions. FWIW we are in discussions on other threads at this time as well. Mostly we are in agreement, and I will defer to Dave on most things - he seems to have encyclopedic knowledge. But the little disagreements are interesting to study...

Greg
Have a look at this link http://www.sailcom.co.uk/transceivers/

The 801E is fully licensed in Europe for non compulsory fit vessels and openable to ham frequencies. Thev802 is in ineffect a different radio to conform to Non EU non GMDSS requirements . Both can be opened to ham frequencies

As I said it is not illegal to sell a radio , out of type approval in Europe , just like the US. it is technically illegal to use them however on a ships station license

I should say that the 801E was supposed to be a compliant class E DSC set. Icom screwed that up, which is not unusual for icom , and so the 801E while ETSI type approvals as a radio is not GMDSS compliant and hence can only be fitted to leisure vessels.

The 801 has greater heat sinks and a DC DC convertor. It has to meet the more stringent ETSI parameters ( like adjacent channel power etc ) the 802 was designed only to pass FCC tests and hence never got past ETSI.

As I said , if you have a ham license and a HF marine license. There is no legal impediment in Europe to using the legal 801E to Tx on both , even though just like the US you are contravening your ships radio license
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Old 19-08-2013, 20:56   #60
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Re: So, Why do I need a Ham License in Mexico?

OK, apparently I was wrong, or times have changed. I certainly met people who at least thought they were in that trap of CE vs ham. That was one of sites that I scanned, but I missed that reference. I also was not current that that there are actually two versions of the M801: the "E" version for non-compulsary carriage (class E, like the M802), and the "GMDSS" version which is Class A. Since the E version cannot be carried on compulsory ships it makes sense to allow ham use. It would be interesting to know if the GMDSS version would be allowed legally to open up, as it is a clear violation of the international treaty to use it in that way on compulsory ships.

I was aware of the significant hardware improvements of the M801 over the M802; it seems a bit strange that these features were not shared with the M802.

As far as DSC goes, it seems like a pretty good example of how not to do things. Perhaps it was design by committee that came up with a camel. Europe was ahead of the US and so pushed ahead with Class D adoption; the US didn't agree and followed with SC101. In the end Class D was adjusted and SC101 went away. Why everyone couldn't have understood and agreed that the multitude of pleasure boats on a fine summer day should not have been capable of repeating Mayday signals is beyond me, but there ya go... One also wonders if there was anyone involved in the process, and the implementation at the manufacturers, that had the barest clue about user interface design. But I digress...

Greg
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