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Old 24-09-2018, 09:39   #1
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SeaTalk NG, SeaTalk 1 -- No Date/Time

Putting the finishing touches on upgrading my old SeaTalk 1 network and autopilot to SeaTalk NG. With the original Raystar GPS and SeaTalk 1 network, date/time displayed on the RL70 charplotter. With the new configuration, the GPS date/time don't display on the RL70. The date/time display on the SeaTalk NG i70, so the GPS is generating the date/time on the network.

More information on network configuration -- Vesper XB-8000 AIS transponder. Using the XB-8000 as main GPS (Raystar GPS died). XB-8000 NMEA 2000 GPS output of is connected to the SeaTalk NG backbone to the autopilot and i70. GPS, AIS, date/time all properly display on the i70. There are no other GPS data connected to the network. In addition, SeaTalk NG to SeaTalk 1 bridge to connect the old SeaTalk instruments (wind, speed, depth) and chartplotter. GPS data properly shows on the chartplotter; date/time don't. Nicely enough, the SeaTalk 1 data bridges back to the SeaTalk NG network so all the old instrument data show on the i70 (and on the XB-8000 wifi).

Everything's working as expected except the date/time doesn't display on the chartplotter. I have verified the RMC sentences with date/time are transmitted every second. I've verified the XB-8000 interfaces all GPS data on the NMEA outputs. I've gone through the RL70's setup, but can't find any NMEA in/out settings that would block date/time. I can live with a date/time page on the i70, but would like to understand why this doesn't display and if there's anything else I'm missing on the RL70.

My next step is to check if there's a software upgrade on the SeaTalk NG to SeaTalk 1 bridge. Other that that, I'm out of ideas -- any thoughts?

Thanks,
Don
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Old 24-09-2018, 15:15   #2
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Re: SeaTalk NG, SeaTalk 1 -- No Date/Time

If I had to guess, your old chart plotter is looking for it in a 183 sentence (maybe ZTG) that is likely not being sent by the Vesper, but is being picked up by the i70 in a NMEA2k sentence.
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Old 24-09-2018, 23:49   #3
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Re: SeaTalk NG, SeaTalk 1 -- No Date/Time

it's possible the bridge does not convert time. it will only convert so many data strings.
you might be able to get a list from the maker. is the raymarine one? you probably also no longer get GPS sat data on the plotter. when I have used stng gps's with older ray plotters that no longer works.

you would need a new raymarine chart plotter to update the bridge.
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Old 24-09-2018, 23:50   #4
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Re: SeaTalk NG, SeaTalk 1 -- No Date/Time

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If I had to guess, your old chart plotter is looking for it in a 183 sentence (maybe ZTG) that is likely not being sent by the Vesper, but is being picked up by the i70 in a NMEA2k sentence.
his old plotter was getting it via seatalk. and is now still getting gps via seatalk.
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Old 25-09-2018, 00:44   #5
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Re: SeaTalk NG, SeaTalk 1 -- No Date/Time

I have pretty much the same setup, except no charplotter anymore. A diagram is a good thing to have when you want to debug the system.


So, RL70 & GPS still connected w/ ST1 but date/time disappeared when adding STNG ? Could it be there is a loop in the network ? Maybe the XB8000 is sending date/time as well and the RL70 gets confused ?
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Old 25-09-2018, 08:48   #6
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Re: SeaTalk NG, SeaTalk 1 -- No Date/Time

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Originally Posted by smac999 View Post
it's possible the bridge does not convert time. it will only convert so many data strings.
you might be able to get a list from the maker. is the raymarine one? you probably also no longer get GPS sat data on the plotter. when I have used stng gps's with older ray plotters that no longer works.

you would need a new raymarine chart plotter to update the bridge.
Going to update the STNG-ST bridge today. Per the Raymarine support forum, there's a funny sentence that only essential data is converted. Perhaps Raymaine thinks date/time is not essential.

Yes, I'm using a Raymarine chartplotter to do the update. Last update was 2016-09.

Yes, the GPS satellite status doesn't bridge -- that's OK; I can always check on the Vesper XB-8000.

Thanks for the suggestions -- I'll report back this afternoon,
Don
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Old 25-09-2018, 12:20   #7
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Re: SeaTalk NG, SeaTalk 1 -- No Date/Time

Read the strings coming from your Vesper AIS. This will show you if it putting out the time and in what format
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Old 25-09-2018, 16:11   #8
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Re: SeaTalk NG, SeaTalk 1 -- No Date/Time

A further update. I updated all the Raymarine SeaTalk NG firmware (STNG-ST1, instruments,….) hoping the GPS date/time would bridge from SeaTalk NG to SeaTalk 1 network. A funny thing – while the A75 was connected to the SeaTalk NG network, the date/time properly displayed on the old RL70C chartplotter. I’m not sure if the Raymarine A75 GPS was outputting the time or just bridging the Vesper XB-8000’s time. When I disconnected the A75, date/time disappeared (I recycled network, etc.).

This tells me the Vesper XB-8000 is not fully GPS compliant and/or the NMEA 2000 packets are incomplete (different than Raymarine?).

I am going to further research viewing the NMEA 2000 / SeaTalk NG packets to see the difference between the Vesper XB-8000 and Raymarine A75. I may consider permanently installing the A75. I've also raised this issue with Vesper (their support is outstanding).

To be continued....
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Old 26-09-2018, 18:42   #9
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Re: SeaTalk NG, SeaTalk 1 -- No Date/Time

The I would say for sure that RL70 is expecting a nmea183 sentence that is not being sent by the vesper, but can be translated.
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Old 26-09-2018, 19:14   #10
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Re: SeaTalk NG, SeaTalk 1 -- No Date/Time

The outstanding Vesper support can not duplicate this situation, which may indicate a problem with connected equipment on the boat. I'm thinking I may have too many SeaTalk 1 instruments posting higher priority traffic (e.g., 2 RL70's) along with the Vesper AIS. I also have a "SpeedPod" connected. I'm now planning on disconnecting different instruments to see if one is causing interference with date/time. I'm hoping it is the SpeedPod, which leads to needing/wanting to install an ITC-5. I'll have a chance to look at this weekend.

Thanks again for your input -- I think I'm zeroing in on the culprit.
Don
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Old 27-09-2018, 00:37   #11
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Re: SeaTalk NG, SeaTalk 1 -- No Date/Time

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Originally Posted by Capt.Don View Post
The outstanding Vesper support can not duplicate this situation, which may indicate a problem with connected equipment on the boat. I'm thinking I may have too many SeaTalk 1 instruments posting higher priority traffic (e.g., 2 RL70's) along with the Vesper AIS. I also have a "SpeedPod" connected. I'm now planning on disconnecting different instruments to see if one is causing interference with date/time. I'm hoping it is the SpeedPod, which leads to needing/wanting to install an ITC-5. I'll have a chance to look at this weekend.

Thanks again for your input -- I think I'm zeroing in on the culprit.
Don

Let us know what you find. Talking about vesper, since mine is connected to STNG (it used to be connected to nmea0183) it doesn't bridge rudder and true wind anymore to wifi. So I don't get them displayed on OpenCPN anymore. Vesper somewhat discovered that when I asked them why. Maybe they will update the software someday.


It's hard to debug a system without a diagram. I spent lot of time on mine even before buying the new AP & instruments. Unfortunately I eventually discovered that EV1 cannot be on the network when S3 is ON, so switching back to S3 in case of EV1/ACU400 failure will take me about 15 minutes. Diagram here FYI, some minor differences in reality but you get the idea.Click image for larger version

Name:	<a title=Electronics Diagram CF.jpg Views: 45 Size: 81.0 KB ID: 178036" style="margin: 2px" />
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Old 02-10-2018, 16:15   #12
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Re: SeaTalk NG, SeaTalk 1 -- No Date/Time

Upgraded all Raymarine firmware to their latest release. With the A75 GPS turned OFF or the A75 disconnected from the SeaTalk NG network, date and time DO NOT display on the RL70C chartplotter. If I connect the A75 and enable its internal GPS, date/time DO properly display on the RL70C.

Basic SeaTalk NG, NMEA 2000 and SeaTalk 1 network diagram attached. This is about as simple as it can be -- Vesper XB-8000 outputs NMEA 2000 data which is connected to the SeaTalk NG backbone. SeaTalk NG - SeaTalk converter adds old SeaTalk 1 instruments into the network. Everything works on the network EXCEPT date and time.....

I'll try to call Raymarine next. This may become a mute point since I may install the A75. The A75 GPS data properly bridges across to the SeaTalk 1 network and RL70C.

Don
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Old 04-10-2018, 10:02   #13
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Re: SeaTalk NG, SeaTalk 1 -- No Date/Time

Spoke to Raymarine. Apparently, the SeaTalk NG-SeaTalk 1 bridge is converting PGN 129033 - Date/Time. The Vesper XB-8000 doesn't output PGN 129033.
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Old 04-10-2018, 19:47   #14
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Re: SeaTalk NG, SeaTalk 1 -- No Date/Time

you really shouldn't be using the AIS as a primary GPS anyways. very few models even allow you to see it or access it.
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