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Old 01-04-2012, 16:42   #61
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Sign, just cause I can't let it go, thanks cat man do, I did some googling and most of the radios available are fully self contained mini pc's. Still vastly less than a system that needs to transmit, but not as cheap as the simple rreceiver radios I was referring to. Hopefully the radio gods will step in and help me...
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Old 01-04-2012, 16:45   #62
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Re: Satphone & HF for Ocean Crossings?

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
Seriously? You tend to be one of the better informed...
...am surprised, maybe I am an anomaly.
It's not an avenue I had looked at so why would I be informed?

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Here is one just for giggles and under 400$us

The page cannot be found
Thanks, certainly a very different device to what I was thinking which was along these lines

http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_n....c0.m270.l1313
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Old 01-04-2012, 16:46   #63
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Re: Satphone & HF for Ocean Crossings?

Thats a very comprehensive reply AllanR and certainly it seems "down under" that HF is enjoying a lively usage. ( mind you I can see why).

Up top, the picture isn't so rosy, what with the large numbers of Vhf stations, GSM, and now sat, HF seems a dying breed. A tale of two hemispheres maybe. Certinly the notion of public service vehicles using HF brought a guffaw.

dave
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Old 01-04-2012, 16:48   #64
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Re: Satphone & HF for Ocean Crossings?

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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
What sort of radio is that?
Can you provide a link please?

DEGEN DE1103 PLL Digital AM/FM/LW SSB Shortwave Receiver Dual Conversion Radio | eBay
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Old 01-04-2012, 16:49   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow
Thats a very comprehensive reply AllanR and certainly it seems "down under" that HF is enjoying a lively usage. ( mind you I can see why).

Up top, the picture isn't so rosy, what with the large numbers of Vhf stations, GSM, and now sat, HF seems a dying breed. A tale of two hemispheres maybe. Certinly the notion of public service vehicles using HF brought a guffaw.

dave
And BBC the staple of hf announcing a 90% cut in hf broadcast?..
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Old 01-04-2012, 17:11   #66
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Re: Satphone & HF for Ocean Crossings?

Thanks for that, it was actually the one I was looking at in the list I provided.

Found some more in this thread using a DEGEN with JVcomm JVComm32 - FAX SSTV RTTY SYNOP NAVTEX program

SSB Receiver Advice / Degen 1103
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Old 01-04-2012, 18:46   #67
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Re: Satphone & HF for Ocean Crossings?

Hi Dave,

The point you make is a key factor in why I got involved in this forum. People's experience in UK/Europe and North America does not prepare them for the reality of sailing in this bigger half of the world - the Pacific and Indian Oceans and the lumps of land in between:

There are no VHF networks (not in Australia or SE Asia) and you are generally sailing too far away from civilisation to be in range if they existed; which is why people don't set them up. Australia simply says, get a HF/SSB radio, that's what you need to funtion in this region.

There are no RNLI or Coast Guard rescue boats. Getting help depends on MRCCs being able to find someone in the vacinity of a disabled or distressed vessel to go help them. That's why having a marine HF/SSB with DSC in your boat is so important. The MRCC can contact you and you can help people who need assitance.

The MRCC does not know your satellite phone number, or that you might be nearby the vessel in distress. And they probably do not have a budget for making sat phone calls to find out. It's straighforward and effective for them to send a DSC alarm on the assigend HF/SSB distress frequencies, then announce by voice the details of the vessel in distress and ask for anyone nearby to respond.

If people go to sea only thinking about themselves they will be happy with a satphone. But the reality is the sea is not our natural environment, we do not have gills and fins. If a problem occurs for someone, it's not simply a matter of stepping onto dry land to escape it. A problem can become a serious issue. We can't cross oceans or enjoy isolated anchorages without that boat underneath us.

If you take only a satphone it's like saying "I expect to call the MRCC for help. I expect all the other boats out there to have a marine HF/SSB radio with DSC, so the MRCC can contact them to get someone to come to my aid. I expect all those other people to buy and operate their marine HF/SSB radio with DSC so they can help me. But I'm not prepared to do the same for them."

Inginuity, creativity, finding ways around problems and utilising minimal reasources to address needs are excellent human qualities which boat ownership encourages. But when it comes time to play your reciprical role in the established, well organised, marine safety network that does work to help people in distress, you need the components that match the exisiting system.

A marine HF/SSB radio with DSC integrates with the established and functional search and rescue system used all around the world. A satellite phone does not, because it does not have the broadcast function. It cannot respond to MRCC DSC calls, and it does not work to participate in self-help cruiser skeds etc. A HF receiver allows listenting to those skeds, but without the transmit capability, it does not allow contributing to everyone else, like they are contributing for your benefit.

To my mind, the satphone certainly has its useful roles at sea, but not as the everyday communication device that helps makes your boat and you a valuable resource and contributing part of the sailing and maritime community; as you expect others to be when you need help.
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Old 01-04-2012, 19:15   #68
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I don't dispute what you say especially in the southern hemisphere. Up here your views are in the minority. MRCC Falmouth will contact you on a sat phone. And they primarily rely on AMVER etc to look for vessels that can aid the distressed. You also forget that there is GMDSS compliant sat comms with EGC and also Navtex which is very big in Europe.

I fully agree with your DSC HF aspects, but most cruisers that need occasional ocean comms seem to go sat comms given the price and complexity of a new HF setup. most modern nav stations don't even have room for the stuff any more. Given that small craft don't even have to be VHF GMDSS compliant , the sat comms at least is a useful backup to nothing.

Dave
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Old 01-04-2012, 19:26   #69
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Re: Satphone & HF for Ocean Crossings?

It appears that we've gotten into one of those international language issues that makes this forum so fun, such as gas/petrol.

Some people on this thread are using "HF" to designated what I call consider "shortwave" receivers, while others are using "HF" to designate what I consider SSB/HAM transceivers.

Big difference it what such units will cost, regardless of the coinage.
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Old 01-04-2012, 19:41   #70
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The correct term is HF or MF/HF just like VHF or UHF, SSB is a modulation method. Receivers are receivers. ( shortwave and longwave etc are terms that have been generally depreciated ) when I say HF ( as does allanr, we mean HF like VHF , ie transceivers) in particular the term DSC HF can only refer to transceivers.

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Old 01-04-2012, 21:00   #71
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Re: Satphone & HF for Ocean Crossings?

Opinions?

Quote:
YAESU FT-857D
It is moded to go everywhere, does all 4X4 frequencies, HF Marine, that other band (see pics) and VHF Marine
YAESU FT-857D
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Old 01-04-2012, 21:36   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow
The correct term is HF or MF/HF just like VHF or UHF, SSB is a modulation method. Receivers are receivers. ( shortwave and longwave etc are terms that have been generally depreciated ) when I say HF ( as does allanr, we mean HF like VHF , ie transceivers) in particular the term DSC HF can only refer to transceivers.

Dave
Honestly, that's like saying, "The correct term is petrol." That may be true in your locale among your peers within the constraints of your generation, but.....
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Old 01-04-2012, 22:35   #73
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Re: Satphone & HF for Ocean Crossings?

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Honestly, that's like saying, "The correct term is petrol." That may be true in your locale among your peers within the constraints of your generation, but.....
Actually, Bash, I believe that the term "HF" universally refers to the part of the radiation spectrum between 10 and 100 MHz, not to any piece of gear.

In either hemisphere one may have a receiver or transceiver or transmitter that operates in this frequency range, and utilize SSB, NBFM, CW, DSSC, or good old fashioned double sideband AM as well as a slew of more sophisticated modulation methods. They are all HF rigs, for all of us no matter where our QTH may be or who our pals are.

When considering technical subjects idiosyncratic use of terms just confuses everyone... witness the above postings!

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 02-04-2012, 03:46   #74
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Originally Posted by Bash

Honestly, that's like saying, "The correct term is petrol." That may be true in your locale among your peers within the constraints of your generation, but.....
No it's simply using the correct terms that are in use in the communications industry, rather then misleading usage that has grown up by the unwashed. ! Of course if you say " a SSB ham set" I know you mean a HF rig ( that of course will do USB,LSB , CW, etcetc), but it's not the correct terminology.

Dave
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:55   #75
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Re: Satphone & HF for Ocean Crossings?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Actually, Bash, I believe that the term "HF" universally refers to the part of the radiation spectrum between 10 and 100 MHz, not to any piece of gear.

In either hemisphere one may have a receiver or transceiver or transmitter that operates in this frequency range, and utilize SSB, NBFM, CW, DSSC, or good old fashioned double sideband AM as well as a slew of more sophisticated modulation methods. They are all HF rigs, for all of us no matter where our QTH may be or who our pals are.

When considering technical subjects idiosyncratic use of terms just confuses everyone... witness the above postings!

Cheers,

Jim
Slight correction - the HF band in the frequency spectrum is 3 MHz to 30 MHz, VHF is 30 MHz to 300 MHz. There were defined a long time ago by (I believe), the ITU.
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