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Old 14-11-2012, 14:29   #31
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Re: Required or Optional?

I opened this based on the topic thinking it was about clothes........
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Old 14-11-2012, 14:29   #32
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Re: Required or Optional?

I was just playing with the airplane analogy, but the comparison has always intrigued me.
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Old 14-11-2012, 14:33   #33
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Re: Required or Optional?

Quote:
Originally Posted by witzgall View Post
You won't induce any structural issues drilling holes to mount a radar that I know of. Have you ever heard of an issue with this?

I just mounted one two weeks ago, it really is an easy exercise. Running the cable, however, was a bit more problematic. It was a mast issue, not the cable, as it is Ethernet, thin, and you can cut it without issues.

We mounted it about 9.5 feet from the deck, after much consideration including a consult with the yard rigger. His opinion was that many many boats have the radar mounted too high. This was a BR-24 Simrad scanner.

Chris
Chris,

As with any monocoque structure, any holes can be a point where a crack may propagate from a finished hole. This is due to the design of the skin taking the load of it's work. The more the item "works" the more likely the structure will develop a crack from the placed holes.

I don't know of any instances of a freestanding aluminum mast failing due to holes at the radar mount. I do not want to be the first on the list of statistics either.

James L
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Old 14-11-2012, 14:35   #34
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Re: Required or Optional?

Has the boat and its other, existing electronics been described? I like to think of equipment being part of a system with each part helping make the voyage safer or more pleasant.
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Old 14-11-2012, 14:48   #35
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Re: Required or Optional?

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Has the boat and its other, existing electronics been described? I like to think of equipment being part of a system with each part helping make the voyage safer or more pleasant.
Well I would think anyone planning to sail would have:

Compass,
Wind direction (not necessary, but very nice to have)
Wind speed
Knot meter/log
Depth
VHF (and possibly a handheld)

This is all an academic exercise for me at this point. The vessel will have instruments when I purchase it, but that will depend on when I find one, and how it is outfitted.

But it is important to point out to those who do not know the basics.

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Old 14-11-2012, 15:04   #36
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Re: Required or Optional?

Requirements (in order):

1. A hull that keeps water out.

2. A means of propulsion: sails, power or oars.

3. A means of steering.

Everything else is optional.
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Old 14-11-2012, 15:30   #37
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Re: Required or Optional?

Well, the discussion about the radar mounting may be a moot point.

I decided that I would go and browse the boats I have on my list to pre-inspect......and wouldn't you know it. The major players have holes drilled in their masts.

This isn't a happy situation for me. I'm not real thrilled with this idea at all. I may need to talk to someone who knows much more about this mast design than I do.

Anyone have any suggestions?

James L
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Old 14-11-2012, 15:50   #38
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Re: Required or Optional?

Is your aversion based on some experience of yours, or ??? You make it sound like you are looking at specialized masts???

Chris
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Old 14-11-2012, 16:20   #39
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Re: Required or Optional?

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Is your aversion based on some experience of yours, or ??? You make it sound like you are looking at specialized masts???

Chris
Chris,

There are not many freestanding masts (no stays at all), in the market.

Freestanding masts take much more of a flexing load than a mast with stays, so there are some considerations which a person needs to think about.

Just because people go and drill holes in a stayed mast, doesn't many a person who has a freestanding mast can do the same thing. There are differences in the forces the two different types of masts experience.

This is not specialized, it is just the boat I settled on. The mast has no stay other than the Furler for the jib.

James L
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Old 14-11-2012, 16:23   #40
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Re: Required or Optional?

Freedom 36
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Old 14-11-2012, 16:30   #41
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Re: Required or Optional?

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Freedom 36
Or Hunter Vision 32 or Hunter Vision 36
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Old 14-11-2012, 16:32   #42
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Re: Required or Optional?

I always find it amazing how many people will say that radar isn't necessary... But I guess some people are comfortable using buckets for heads.

In my expereince teaching electronics and radar use, many recreational sailors are unfamiliar with their radar's abilitities and tend to ignore it since they don't know how to use it properly. Excuses like, "it uses to much Power" or "I don't sail in fog" are silly in regards to radar.

Radar is one of the most effective and multi-purpose tools on your vessel.

Most people think of radar and associate it with limited visibility, like fog or darkness, but radar can be used for much, much more.

Besides limited visibility, radar also measures bearing and distance, which can calculate Closest Point of Approach (CPA) and Time to Closest Point of Approach (TCPA) or in other words determine if you will hit or miss an approaching vessel and what time will it happen.

Radar can identify weather systems (Squalls), giving you a chance to prepare or out run it.

Radar can be used for navigtion and will identify RACON Devices on navigational aids...

Not to mention it can be overlayed on electronic charts to see if they are acurate or not and if off determine how far.
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Old 14-11-2012, 18:26   #43
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Re: Required or Optional?

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I always find it amazing how many people will say that radar isn't necessary... But I guess some people are comfortable using buckets for heads.

In my expereince teaching electronics and radar use, many recreational sailors are unfamiliar with their radar's abilitities and tend to ignore it since they don't know how to use it properly. Excuses like, "it uses to much Power" or "I don't sail in fog" are silly in regards to radar.

Radar is one of the most effective and multi-purpose tools on your vessel.

Most people think of radar and associate it with limited visibility, like fog or darkness, but radar can be used for much, much more.

Besides limited visibility, radar also measures bearing and distance, which can calculate Closest Point of Approach (CPA) and Time to Closest Point of Approach (TCPA) or in other words determine if you will hit or miss an approaching vessel and what time will it happen.

Radar can identify weather systems (Squalls), giving you a chance to prepare or out run it.

Radar can be used for navigtion and will identify RACON Devices on navigational aids...

Not to mention it can be overlayed on electronic charts to see if they are acurate or not and if off determine how far.
I can see where some people wouldn't warrant the use of radar. If you mainly sail during the day, and anchor at night, a radar is not very useful.

This is based on waiting for the weather at an anchorage before your next leg of a journey.

Some people are fair weather sailors, and I can understand that.

I'm not too keen on staying a day only sailor, and would like to have the radar.

I guess, I'm going into the learning mode to see what used equipment can be used with other "pre-owned" equipment. It's not always easy using "pre-owned" in this scenario.

James L
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Old 14-11-2012, 18:31   #44
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Re: Required or Optional?

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.................Radar is one of the most effective and multi-purpose tools on your vessel.

Most people think of radar and associate it with limited visibility, like fog or darkness, but radar can be used for much, much more.............
I've used my radar in this manner, but all these applications are secondary in importance, redundant in application and seem insignificant when you use your radar to make a passage through the thick fog of downeast Maine. I can cruise in lower latitudes without radar, but I could be laid up for weeks without radar north of Cape Cod or, if I were bold enough to head out with temporary visibility, I could be suddenly socked in and finishing my day at great risk.
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Old 14-11-2012, 19:30   #45
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Re: Required or Optional?

Ah, sorry, I missed the post where you let us know it was free-standing. I know nothing about how drilling holes would affect them vs. a stayed mast. Sorry for the distraction.

Chris

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Chris,

There are not many freestanding masts (no stays at all), in the market.

Freestanding masts take much more of a flexing load than a mast with stays, so there are some considerations which a person needs to think about.

Just because people go and drill holes in a stayed mast, doesn't many a person who has a freestanding mast can do the same thing. There are differences in the forces the two different types of masts experience.

This is not specialized, it is just the boat I settled on. The mast has no stay other than the Furler for the jib.

James L
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