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Old 01-03-2013, 19:42   #16
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I do carry them

Step back and wonder. Of all the mandated gear how effective are flares given the number of times they are used and the response. A well established cruiser suggested. We shoot them off the beach.
I have seen flares but not once have they been in situation. It's a obsolete requirement. Not a bad choice but aged. My Epirb does not fail along with other comms. It has its own battery and GPS. Yes I have flares but required.
A mandate that VHF have a gos signal would be cheap and would stop the kind of waste that occurred in California last week. It is already required on most us cellphones. I am not against flares as a choice but mandating seems way old school.
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Old 01-03-2013, 19:45   #17
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Re: Required

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Originally Posted by 67Therapy View Post
.........
2. Tie glow sticks on your PFDs! At night, a rescuer on night vision goggles can see a glow stick from a long ways. Even better, spin one on a string above your head like a propeller....can be seen very easily.
Thanks, I like that
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Old 01-03-2013, 20:21   #18
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Re: Required

At least in the U.S. you are not required to carry flares. You have to carry ONE of the devices listed in the table in 175.130 below. Read 175.130 (a) carefully. So to be in full compliance with the law, an orange flag (a specific one with black circle and square) to meet day requirements, and a flashlight that automatically flashes SOS to meet night requirements.

That said I carry flares and will continue to do so. Though the flares that I carry so far that meet U.S. requirements are pitiful. Our club has had a couple of the USCG come down and shoot off flares functions.

JOhn

33 CFR 175.110 - Visual distress signals required. - Code of Federal Regulations - Title 33: Navigation and Navigable Waters - Subpart C: Visual Distress Signals - Id 19763144 - vLex

175.110 - Visual distress signals required.

(a) No person may use a boat 16 feet or more in length, or any boat operating as an uninspected passenger vessel subject to the requirements of 46 CFR chapter I, subchapter C, unless visual distress signals selected from the list in ? 175.130 or the alternatives in ? 175.135, in the number required, are onboard. Devices suitable for day use and devices suitable for night use, or devices suitable for both day and night use, must be carried.

(b) Between sunset and sunrise, no person may use a boat less than 16 feet in length unless visual distress signals suitable for night use, selected from the list in ? 175.130 or ? 175.135, in the number required, are on board.


33 CFR 175.130 - Visual distress signals accepted. - Code of Federal Regulations - Title 33: Navigation and Navigable Waters - Subpart C: Visual Distress Signals - Id 19763189 - vLex

Subpart C: Visual Distress Signals

175.130 - Visual distress signals accepted.

(a) Any of the following signals, when carried in the number required, can be used to meet the requirements of ? 175.110:

(1) An electric distress light meeting the standards of 46 CFR 161.013. One is required to meet the night only requirement.

(2) An orange flag meeting the standards of 46 CFR 160.072. One is required to meet the day only requirement.

(3) Pyrotechnics meeting the standards noted in Table 175.130.

(b) Any combination of signal devices selected from the types noted in paragraphs (a) (1), (2) and (3) of this section, when carried in the number required, may be used to meet both day and night requirements. Examples?the combination of two hand held red flares (160.021), and one parachute red flare (160.024 or 160.036) meets both day and night requirements. Three hand held orange smoke (160.037) with one electric distress light (161.013) meet both day and night requirements.
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Old 01-03-2013, 20:49   #19
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Originally Posted by starchaser 2011 View Post
...Had some other pithy observations that I deleted.
In fun. We try to avoid being too pithy on a family forum.

What I like best about my auto flashing SOS light is when I get stupid and put those danged batteries in backwards, IT STILL FLASHES SOS!
Like a palamino.
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Old 01-03-2013, 21:03   #20
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Re: Required

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T... and Wasp spray I'm pretty safe....
Too many laws.

What is the wasp spray for? It is certainly not effective as a repellant, since it has no immediate repellant affect on people, other than to damage their eyes much later. This is a wide spread urban legend that could have been easily researched as false. But it wasn't researched, just posted as information.

Which comes to why we have laws. Though not perfect and occasionally out-of-date, they help guide people toward things that work and protect them from the foolish.

----

I'm not clear on what was suggested. For close in on a rainy night, they work. Since brightness is relatively uniform, you can gauge distance. As for dating, I've seen pleanty of out-of-date flares that had gotten damp (boats tend to be damp, and even the dry ones suffer from windows left open and wet sailors) and would not fire; dating assures inspection and replacement.
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Old 01-03-2013, 21:06   #21
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Re: Required

1. personal AIS EPIRB
2. personal strobe light
3. mini pen flares... or better waterproof VHF?

all above carried on the person and primarily for MOB but can be used in general too. After that, carried aboard instead on the person:

1. EPIRB with GPS
2. VHF radio with DSC and GPS link
3. SOLAS Parachute signals
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Old 01-03-2013, 21:22   #22
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Re: Required

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My suggestion is that government has become the safety net without qualification.
The flaw in the OP's logic is that presumption that flares are only there to summon aid from he government.

Bottom line: you want to call in the Coast Guard or the Navy, use EPIRB. However, if I'm five miles away and you want to alert me that you're floating nearby in a liferaft, EPIRB is useless. Shoot a flair.

Let's also remember that not all boats are equipped the same. There are no EPIRBs on my sea kayak, but I always carry flares.

Let's also remember that there are times when non-mariners are involved in rescues. When you hit the rocks, citizens ashore won't have any means to detect your EPIRB, but they'll probably know something is wrong when you shoot off a flare.
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Old 01-03-2013, 21:37   #23
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Wasp spray is for wasps. Damn I might be wrong. Thought I was required to maintain these flares. No longer is it 36 months but 42 from date if manufacture. A verified flashlight and a day signal might be all that is required. Or 3 solas flares and a day sign or 3 hand held orange flares and a flashlight. Maybe there is some logic in this but it escapes me.
I found these 800 lumen led flashlights by nitecore model mt40 that are blinding bright. Keep 2 onboard. Excellent as a bear deterrent especially when used with the high strobe.
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Old 01-03-2013, 22:03   #24
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One uses wasp spray to close the thread.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:28   #25
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Re: Required

Someone on Craigslist was trying to sell a rescue kit with twenty-year-old flares. Those just might have been more of a hazard to a user than anything useful.

It might be useful to include a heavy, heat resistant glove with the flare kit... something like a welder's glove might be useful.

I'm surprised people haven't brought up pros and cons for laser signal devices.
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:35   #26
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Originally Posted by rgscpat View Post
I'm surprised people haven't brought up pros and cons for laser signal devices.
I've been on C/L and Ebay shopping for a Jedi light saber. Lifetime battery. Low power setting as signal device set on horizon, bends with the earth's curvature, and lights up nearest SAR with several programmed messages from out of beer/gas to come save my sorry ass, in the Yuppie! settings to Help Me This Time Jesus [Muhammad, Obama, Prince Harry, J. Gillard], and I'll Never Go to Sea Again! for the little lady who was promised that a catamaran solved the "rough seas problem".

Old Salt setting starts with a sexy French "Securite" message guaranteed to get the most lackadasical CGuardsman erect and paying close attention to various pronunciations of "MayDay" from Down East Maine, and Deep South in the USA, through lower class London, even lower class Aussie, and ultimate Middle East version that is unintelligible no matter what. Ha ha.

On high power, the device can blow a Moody skeg sized hole in a Somali pirate regardless of hair color under the towel/sheet/camel hide. Other optional settings are available that can act as a one handed anal cleanser to distilling water or choice of spirits. Wine from water? No problem.

The only real con to these is the rather high expense. But what the hay?
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:08   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post

I've been on C/L and Ebay shopping for a Jedi light saber. Lifetime battery. Low power setting as signal device set on horizon, bends with the earth's curvature, and lights up nearest SAR with several programmed messages from out of beer/gas to come save my sorry ass, in the Yuppie! settings to Help Me This Time Jesus [Muhammad, Obama, Prince Harry, J. Gillard], and I'll Never Go to Sea Again! for the little lady who was promised that a catamaran solved the "rough seas problem".

Old Salt setting starts with a sexy French "Securite" message guaranteed to get the most lackadasical CGuardsman erect and paying close attention to various pronunciations of "MayDay" from Down East Maine, and Deep South in the USA, through lower class London, even lower class Aussie, and ultimate Middle East version that is unintelligible no matter what. Ha ha.

On high power, the device can blow a Moody skeg sized hole in a Somali pirate regardless of hair color under the towel/sheet/camel hide. Other optional settings are available that can act as a one handed anal cleanser to distilling water or choice of spirits. Wine from water? No problem.

The only real con to these is the rather high expense. But what the hay?
I recommend you look on Craighs list on Tatooine

Here are some of the models that can still be found:
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:12   #28
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Re: Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabray View Post
I do carry them

Step back and wonder. Of all the mandated gear how effective are flares given the number of times they are used and the response. A well established cruiser suggested. We shoot them off the beach.
I have seen flares but not once have they been in situation. It's a obsolete requirement. Not a bad choice but aged. My Epirb does not fail along with other comms. It has its own battery and GPS. Yes I have flares but required.
A mandate that VHF have a gos signal would be cheap and would stop the kind of waste that occurred in California last week. It is already required on most us cellphones. I am not against flares as a choice but mandating seems way old school.
I am a fan of redundency and also of Murphy's Law...

Had a friend abandon her sinking boat a couple of years ago... Just prior to getting into the liferaft, a wave washed over the cockpit and took their ditch bag with it.

Since we are playing what if.... Supose that had been the EPIRB and now it is floating away happily directing rescuers within 100 meters of its location....

Flares and smoke would alert rescuers where you were, not where the EPIRB was flotaing, even if it only saves minutes that could mean the difference between life and death in cold water.

As a mentioned earlier, it is not easy to spot a floating object in the water, even if you have a Lat/Long....

During my last STCW classes we watched a film by the Alaska Commercial Fishing Association on visual distress signals used by a person floating in the water. He waved and used flares and smoke. You couldn't see him waiving, but could see the flares and smole.

So with that said, would I risk my life on something as simple as purchasing new flares and a smoke canister every two years? I don't think so.
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:30   #29
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Re: Required

I believe I remember that there might be a problem with the light that signals SOS at night for your VDS. I think I read someplace that ACR stopped making their light that is USCG approved and there is no one else making one. I just did a short search and found the ACR light out of stock and did not find any other lights claiming to to meet this standard.

John
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:14   #30
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I cant find one that meets the standard. 161.013 is pretty specific. My 800 lumen nitecore with strobe feature won't float and because it can be constant on fails.
this from cg site.
APPROVAL GUIDANCE & INFORMATION: This is an alternative to flares for recreational boats. It is required to automatically flash S-O-S. Light intensity and duration requirements apply. Electric S-O-S distress lights are self-certified by the manufacturer. The Coast Guard does not issue approvals or keep an authenticated list of manufacturers. Approval standards for these lights are found in Title 46 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Subpart 161.013.
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