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Old 28-02-2016, 13:11   #1
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Reprogramming MMSI in Standard Horizon HX851?

I sold my old HX851 in like 20 minutes, for only about $60 less than I paid for my new HX870 (see separate review).

Now I'm trying to help the buyer put his own MMSI number in. Unlike fixed units, which allow you to do it twice, these bloody things only let you do it once. There is a guy over here who for 15 pounds will reset the MMSI and reprogram channels.

But surely one can do it oneself? You can buy the programming cable here:

http://www.amazon.com/SUNDELY%C2%AE-.../dp/B00CW7BRUQ

Anyone know how to change the MMSI with this?

Here is some technical information about programming the HX851:

Standard Horizon HX851
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Old 28-02-2016, 14:58   #2
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Re: Reprogramming MMSI in Standard Horizon HX851?

Far as I know you have to send it in. My new fixed mount SH can only be programmed once for MMSI, big warning right in the first couple pages of the manual.
From now on the radio stays with me not the boat. Easy enough to get the boat info changed by the govt. in a new boat situation.
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Old 28-02-2016, 15:22   #3
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Re: Reprogramming MMSI in Standard Horizon HX851?

I havn't tried any of this yet but you could look into it. The first one sells cabling for most anything, secound is a program for setting up radios


http://www.kawamall.com/pd_1x_vx7rusbcbl.cfm


http://chirp.danplanet.com



I

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Old 28-02-2016, 16:53   #4
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Re: Reprogramming MMSI in Standard Horizon HX851?

Dockhead,
You realize that Standard Horizon will send assassins after you if you pursue that option.
All the radio makers tend to keep this stuff "secret" to make sure users don't tamper with it. And it is beyond the casual user, in any case, to do custom programming over a serial interface.
I don't think the Chirp folks will be interested, they deal mainly with ham and "part90" radios. But you never know, they might be willing to poke around, to tell you how to. They'd need a radio to poke into, to write it into CHIRP.
If someone poked around in the radio's memory and looked for the MMSI string, your MMSI, then they might be able to "just" overwrite it with the new string, sent as part of a command to overwrite that memory address. That's one option.
The other would be that since the radio allows a "console" entry of the MMSI by a new user, somewhere in memory there's a setting that says "MMSI been set already? If yes, don't allow the console again" and that set/not condition might be a matter of a simple byte in memory--that would be very hard to find, unless you had an unset radio to compare it with.
And I'd guess unlikely, but possible, that there's a secret boot-up key combination that might reset the "new MMSI" option.

So, possible, yes, if someone spends hours breaking the secret. More practical for the guy to send it in to SH or someone else who already knows how to do this.
Do let us all know, if you find out how. And watch out for those SH assassins.(G)
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Old 29-02-2016, 01:20   #5
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Re: Reprogramming MMSI in Standard Horizon HX851?

you need the SH software as well. and probably only dealers can buy it.


I had SH software and cables for different radios years ago for older models.
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Old 29-02-2016, 03:19   #6
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Re: Reprogramming MMSI in Standard Horizon HX851?

OK, well I've already sent it off to be reprogrammed. But I don't think it can be all that hard -- there are guys who do it in their garages for 15 pounds, together with reprogramming the channels.

I understand that there is a public policy reason to make it hard to reprogram the MMSI at random -- so that bad people can't spoof MMSI's. But it shouldn't be made this hard. Of course it's in the interests of the makers to make it expensive to do -- good reason to just buy a new one rather than a used one. It hastens the moment when it's not worth messing with and better to just throw it away. That's bad for us.
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Old 29-02-2016, 03:27   #7
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Re: Reprogramming MMSI in Standard Horizon HX851?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Unlike fixed units, which allow you to do it twice, these bloody things only let you do it once.
Nice to know as I've reflagged my yacht and waiting on my new MMSI. I have a fixed SH that will need to be reprogrammed.
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Old 29-02-2016, 05:06   #8
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Re: Reprogramming MMSI in Standard Horizon HX851?

For USA based MMSI numbers, it really a very easy no-expense method to call in to the data base manager and delete your info and the new owner register his/her info.
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Old 29-02-2016, 05:17   #9
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Re: Reprogramming MMSI in Standard Horizon HX851?

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Originally Posted by capbillh View Post
For USA based MMSI numbers, it really a very easy no-expense method to call in to the data base manager and delete your info and the new owner register his/her info.
We're not talking about changing your MMSI in the database. We're talking about changing the MMSI programmed into the radio. As when you buy a used radio which has someone else's MMSI in it.

Icom, at least on their fixed radios, lets you program the MMSI TWICE.

Thus I bought a used M802 HF radio and was able to put in my own MMSI, myself, since it was only the second time it had been done.

The makers ought to allow this say 5 times -- that would accomplish the goal of preventing people from changing them willy nilly in order to spoof their MMSI for nefarious purposes, and yet allow people to buy and sell these radios a normal number of times over their lifetimes. Without sending in for reprogramming, which costs 32 pounds or nearly $50 PLUS two way shipping, if you do it with Yaesu. This is ridiculous and means that many perfectly good radios will just get thrown away, or will get used with the wrong MMSI. Bleh.
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Old 29-02-2016, 05:18   #10
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Re: Reprogramming MMSI in Standard Horizon HX851?

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post

I understand that there is a public policy reason to make it hard to reprogram the MMSI at random -- so that bad people can't spoof MMSI's. But it shouldn't be made this hard.
+1

Pretty ineffectual restriction if those who wish to spoof an MMSI can just buy new, enter an MMSI themselves and thus impersonate any civilian vessel they choose.
If that's true I don't see any logic at all in reprogramming restrictions for civilian MMSI's.

I would like to believe that "governmental" MMSI's were completely uncrackable but no idea if that's the case. Suspect not.

Once spotted on MarineTraffic a ship transmitting the MMSI information of a different, unrelated ship thousands of miles away.
Phoned the destination port authority (only hours before a big public event there) and was told it's not that unusual.

Don't know the truth of it but that's what I was told.
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Old 29-02-2016, 05:46   #11
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Re: Reprogramming MMSI in Standard Horizon HX851?

My point of changing the data for the MMSI number is the more important thing. So what if your HT has a different number than the boat radio so long as they both point to you, the owner? What happens if you take the HT on with you to a friends boat it would still point to you and the emergency contact could then let the authorities know of your "visit" on a different boat and route.
a unit's serial number doe not change when the unit is sold. It can be re-registered for the new owner.
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Old 29-02-2016, 07:44   #12
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Re: Reprogramming MMSI in Standard Horizon HX851?

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Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
Nice to know as I've reflagged my yacht and waiting on my new MMSI. I have a fixed SH that will need to be reprogrammed.
Might get lucky if it's an older radio that it can be done twice. I know for a fcat the new ones you can only program once.
Section 9.2.2 of the 2200 manual page 50
Same section of 1300 manual page 37.
Clearly states one time only, send it in to have it erased.

"The MMSI can be input only once. Therefore, please be careful not to input the incorrect MMSI number. If you need to change the MMSI number after it has been entered, the radio will HAVE to be returned for factory service, refer to section 12.2 "Factory Service""

Word for word from TWO manuals for the new ones. Hope it's different for the older ones.
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Old 29-02-2016, 08:00   #13
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Re: Reprogramming MMSI in Standard Horizon HX851?

I believe it is the government, not the manufacturers, that requires the reprogramming limits.


I had to send mine back to SH for reprograming. There was no charge.
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Old 29-02-2016, 08:44   #14
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Re: Reprogramming MMSI in Standard Horizon HX851?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capbillh View Post
My point of changing the data for the MMSI number is the more important thing. So what if your HT has a different number than the boat radio so long as they both point to you, the owner? What happens if you take the HT on with you to a friends boat it would still point to you and the emergency contact could then let the authorities know of your "visit" on a different boat and route.
a unit's serial number doe not change when the unit is sold. It can be re-registered for the new owner.
The HT's MMSI MUST be different from the ship's, if it's in the ITU database.

In the U.S., the FCC hasn't figured it out yet, and they recommend using the SAME MMSI as the ship's, or using an unofficial MMSI-like number assigned by a private organization like Boat US. DSC handhelds are new enough that there are not clear rules everywhere.

So maybe this trick would work in the U.S., if your MMSI is non-official.

It can't be used here, where DSC handhelds get their own MMSI numbers which go into the ITU database associated with the ship.

Over here, once they're official (that is, registered with ITU), the ship's call sign and MMSI number(s) follow the ship, not the owner. Therefore you have to reprogram the MMSI number if you sell the radio equipment.


And -- you're only allowed one DSC handheld per ship. That seems silly. I can imagine wanting to have more than one and can't imagine why they would restrict the number.
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Old 29-02-2016, 08:51   #15
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Re: Reprogramming MMSI in Standard Horizon HX851?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
The HT's MMSI MUST be different from the ship's, if it's in the ITU database.

In the U.S., the FCC hasn't figured it out yet, and they recommend using the SAME MMSI as the ship's, or using an unofficial MMSI-like number assigned by a private organization like Boat US. DSC handhelds are new enough that there are not clear rules everywhere.

So maybe this trick would work in the U.S., if your MMSI is non-official.

It can't be used here, where DSC handhelds get their own MMSI numbers which go into the ITU database associated with the ship.

Over here, once they're official (that is, registered with ITU), the ship's call sign and MMSI number(s) follow the ship, not the owner. Therefore you have to reprogram the MMSI number if you sell the radio equipment.
Can't you delete or change the MMSI in the database ?
Perhaps that is just as difficult as sending in the radio.
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