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Old 28-07-2017, 14:00   #91
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Re: Replacing Ship's Computer -- Atom vs Celeron?

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Originally Posted by NahanniV View Post
You would have to pay $100+ for Win10
True only for some definitions of "have to"
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Old 28-07-2017, 14:27   #92
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Re: Replacing Ship's Computer -- Atom vs Celeron?

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True only for some definitions of "have to"
Since most of the other systems and prices being discussed included a Windows 10 licence, you would need to add that in order to make a fair comparison.

Alternatively, most of the other systems are available in a version with more flash and no Windows licence for a lower price. This is due to a cheap Windows 10 licence available for 32G systems.
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Old 28-07-2017, 15:58   #93
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Re: Replacing Ship's Computer -- Atom vs Celeron?

Why not a laptop? You get a ups (battery), its compact and portable.

There are many flavprs of linux that will run on just about anything.

I've run dual boot linux on all my windoze laptops for more than 10 years. Like for like linux is always simpler, faster and easier to maintain.

Why care about specs for a basic workload?
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Old 28-07-2017, 16:44   #94
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Re: Replacing Ship's Computer -- Atom vs Celeron?

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Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
Why not a laptop? You get a ups (battery), its compact and portable.

There are many flavprs of linux that will run on just about anything.

I've run dual boot linux on all my windoze laptops for more than 10 years. Like for like linux is always simpler, faster and easier to maintain.

Why care about specs for a basic workload?
Good question on the laptop. IMHO mini computers are easier to integrate into the ships nmea backbone and are both more resilient to damage and easier and cheaper to replace. For example, I have a toughbook that didn't survive it's last passage because it ended up on the floor swimming in brackish water. Laptops are best left stowed when the going gets rough.

Besides, the Admiral has first rights to a laptop in my crew and my boat's too small to fill with laptops.
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Old 28-07-2017, 16:53   #95
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Re: Replacing Ship's Computer -- Atom vs Celeron?

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Originally Posted by NahanniV View Post
Since most of the other systems and prices being discussed included a Windows 10 licence, you would need to add that in order to make a fair comparison.

Alternatively, most of the other systems are available in a version with more flash and no Windows licence for a lower price. This is due to a cheap Windows 10 licence available for 32G systems.
Or, from my POV, some PCs are more expensive because they include a windoze license I don't want to pay for. A fair comparison for me means not adding anything.

The Intel NUCs are best for this use case IMO, very robust, and if you are good at eBay sniping, can often be picked up for we'll under $150 even with a decent processor that allows it to have a longer service life.

When used with a monitor, they mount right to the swing arm VESA holes, keeping them hidden and out of harm's way.
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Old 28-07-2017, 16:56   #96
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Re: Replacing Ship's Computer -- Atom vs Celeron?

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Or, from my POV, some PCs are more expensive because they include a windoze license I don't want to pay for. A fair comparison for me means not adding anything.

The Intel NUCs are best for this use case IMO, very robust, and if you are good at eBay sniping, can often be picked up for we'll under $150 even with a decent processor that allows it to have a longer service life.

When used with a monitor, they mount right to the swing arm VESA holes, keeping them hidden and out of harm's way.
have a NUC and love it... monitor has a capability to be virtually anywhere in the boat... including the cockpit... I installed win7 pro and it's more than fine and with the buck 12/19 I don't use an inverter. The NUC is on a secure lift off mount in a locker.
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Old 28-07-2017, 22:16   #97
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Re: Replacing Ship's Computer -- Atom vs Celeron?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
Why not a laptop? You get a ups (battery), its compact and portable.

There are many flavprs of linux that will run on just about anything.

I've run dual boot linux on all my windoze laptops for more than 10 years. Like for like linux is always simpler, faster and easier to maintain.

Why care about specs for a basic workload?
I've using laptops for this for decades, and got sick of dealing with the loose piece of equipment which is awkward to use with an external monitor, awkward to connect to different systems on board -- and that is despite having a dedicated laptop drawer at my nav table!

A fixed installed computer -- especially one as extremely compact as this one -- makes for a much neater installation, completely out of the way and permanently connected to ship's systems (power supply, monitor, ethernet, large external hard drive, Actisense N2K to USB, USB connection to AIS black box, USB connection to Pactor modem, etc., etc.) -- is far nicer than futzing around with a laptop. I am really pleased to have made the transition, and for so little money!


Concerning Linux -- I'm an old Unix guy, so I really wanted to love Linux for these applications. But I could not -- too much of a hassle to get drivers to work every time you install a new piece of hardware. It's the perfect OS if your goal is to have fun playing with the computer; it's not if your goal is to get the computer to do work for you with as little as hassle as possible. ESPECIALLY if you are at sea for long periods without Internet as I am from time to time. YMMV of course.
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Old 29-07-2017, 11:46   #98
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Re: Replacing Ship's Computer -- Atom vs Celeron?

I'm mostly very pleased with my new puter, and today got a nice bonus --

The second video output, using a VGA connector, seems to connect to my monitor digitally! It won't do 4k, but it does full HD 1080p at 60fps, which looks perfect. I have no idea how this works, but it looks like both monitor and computer are making a digital connection over the old fashioned analog VGA cable. Cool! This is really good because I want to be able to use my bulkhead monitor as a second display.

Now here's the bad news! HDMI sound disappears when I have a monitor connected to the VGA port .

And that's on top of an apparently defective DAC unit -- I can't get a usable signal out of the 3.5mm audio jack, to play through my stereo. I guess I can add a USB DAC to solve this, but it's annoying.
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Old 30-07-2017, 10:38   #99
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Re: Replacing Ship's Computer -- Atom vs Celeron?

So, Just ordered my set:

- Minix Z83-4 mini pc (4 gb ram, win 10)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/MINIX-NEO-Z...INIX+NEO+Z83-4

- 22 inch FULL HD LED IPS touch screen (2nd hand) https://iiyama.com/gb_en/products/prolite-tf2234mc-b1x/

- Flexible silicone waterproof keybord

Total abt. 450 euro ! Beats a laptop to IMHO

Brgds,
Safc
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Old 13-08-2017, 10:39   #100
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Re: Replacing Ship's Computer -- Atom vs Celeron?

Update:

I've sailed nearly 1000 miles with my new ship's computer setup, and I'm delighted with it! Using a fixed installed and out of the way box instead of laptop is hugely better in a seaway. It greatly relieves clutter at the nav table.

The ultra cheap 120 euro Bqeel box I bought is working fantastic. The performance is perfectly adequate for everything I use it for -- better than my office laptop. It seems to be optimized for video and graphics, because these functions are particularly excellent.

The only problems I'm having are no sound via HDMI when I have a monitor connected via VGA -- no idea why that is.

And sound to my boat stereo via long analogue headset cord is spoiled by interference.

I'm working on a couple possible solutions to that, but I'm worried as always about excessive complexity and too many wires in the boat. Either a USB DAC/amplifier to connect to my boat speakers, or a small USB DAC with 3.5mm socket, to connect to the stereo with a short headphone cord instead of the long one I have now. Are the two solutions I am considering.

I am also very pleased with the Bqeel micro keyboard/trackpad. The trackpad is too small for fine use with OpenCPN, but I also keep a full sized USB mouse connected for that. The trackpad and keyboard is fine for small jobs, and it is really great not to have a large keyboard obscuring my charts on the nav table. And watching movies I can take it with me.

Another great installation is the mounted USB/audio/microphone box, which I put in a 60mm hole I drilled next to the nav table. It gives you access to plugging stuff into the computer without lifting the settee back to get at the actual box. I'll post photos later.

I am connected to the boat network so far using GoFree over WiFi, but at first opportunity I will buy a Simrad yellow Ethernet plug to RJ45 adapter, and plug in by Ethernet. This will add radar to the data I'm getting over GoFree.

All in all, I can really recommend a fixed installed fanless mini computer as a ship's computer. A very cheap and very good solution, using extremely little power to boot.
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Old 13-08-2017, 11:47   #101
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Re: Replacing Ship's Computer -- Atom vs Celeron?

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Update:
....
And sound to my boat stereo via long analogue headset cord is spoiled by interference.

I'm working on a couple possible solutions to that, but I'm worried as always about excessive complexity and too many wires in the boat. Either a USB DAC/amplifier to connect to my boat speakers, or a small USB DAC with 3.5mm socket, to connect to the stereo with a short headphone cord instead of the long one I have now. Are the two solutions I am considering.
....
I'm thinking of trying BlueTooth.
Perhaps your stereo can already do that ? Otherwise an adapter is inexpensive.
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Old 13-08-2017, 12:06   #102
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Re: Replacing Ship's Computer -- Atom vs Celeron?

Short range only, not great fidelity/bandwidth.

Wired more reliable.

HDMI gadgets that split off and allow boosting/amplifying the audio are available.
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Old 14-08-2017, 14:57   #103
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Re: Replacing Ship's Computer -- Atom vs Celeron?

https://store.digg.com/sales/ockel-s...10-pocket-pc-2
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