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Old 16-11-2009, 23:18   #1
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Renters Barred by FCC from Using HF Radio?

I rent sailboats. I'd love to use the Maritime HF bands for Sailmail and other services but.... the FCC issues maritime licenses only to VESSELS, not people. Yes, I have every FCC license at the highest possible class for every kind of operation except maritime radiotelegraphy (General Class, Global Maritime Distress and Safety System combined Operator/Maintainer with ship radar, and Amateur Extra) and yet this has me completely stumped. There's no chance that I will get every sailboat rental outfit to license every sailboat with the FCC that I rent - just so I can operate on the maritime HF bands. (In fact, I'm not sure it's legal for me to operate a maritime VHF radio in foreign waters - even though I hold the highest class operator's license that's issued to do that!)

So now what? No maritime HF for me? The only solution I can think of to get around this problem with the FCC is to buy an inflatable dingy, get it licensed, and then throw it on the deck of the rented sailboat and sit in it whenever I transmit. Or does the FCC also require "the licensed vessel" to be afloat?

I'm complete stumped.
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Old 16-11-2009, 23:25   #2
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I don't know, but I will say that I regularly tear those tags off of my pillows and such that say 'do not remove' and no one has ever locked me up....


.... well, not yet anyway.
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Old 17-11-2009, 01:49   #3
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Originally Posted by N8QH View Post
So now what? No maritime HF for me? ...I'm complete stumped.
Just use the damn 2-way.
You are old enough now to do a bit of crime and relish it! Its not like you are running drugs. You're using a radio you are qualified for. Its just an admin thingo. LIE!!!!! Commit the crime!!!!!!! Just don't tell Mr FFC.

If you ever get caught go to court and tell the judge that you have never done a crime before but the FFC are nit-wits. What the Judge going to do? Let you off.

So just use it.
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Old 17-11-2009, 02:08   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8QH View Post
I rent sailboats. I'd love to use the Maritime HF bands for Sailmail and other services but.... the FCC issues maritime licenses only to VESSELS, not people. Yes, I have every FCC license at the highest possible class for every kind of operation except maritime radiotelegraphy (General Class, Global Maritime Distress and Safety System combined Operator/Maintainer with ship radar, and Amateur Extra) and yet this has me completely stumped. There's no chance that I will get every sailboat rental outfit to license every sailboat with the FCC that I rent - just so I can operate on the maritime HF bands. (In fact, I'm not sure it's legal for me to operate a maritime VHF radio in foreign waters - even though I hold the highest class operator's license that's issued to do that!)

So now what? No maritime HF for me? The only solution I can think of to get around this problem with the FCC is to buy an inflatable dingy, get it licensed, and then throw it on the deck of the rented sailboat and sit in it whenever I transmit. Or does the FCC also require "the licensed vessel" to be afloat?

I'm complete stumped.
Hmm... I am stumped too; I don't understand your question .

You rent a sailboat that presumably has a marine HF set on board. Surely the rental outfit has a FCC station license for the set, how else could they have fitted the set (legally). Again I am presuming a reputable rental outfit.

It is not clear (to me) from your post if you have a marine HF operators certificate but again assuming you do if you are planning to use the set, you should be good to go on air.

You can hold a operators certificate that allows you to use a licensed set. The owner of the set has to have the station licence (which any good renatl outfit would have IMO).
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Old 17-11-2009, 05:24   #5
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Use schedule G, Exemption from Ship Station Requirements, when filling out the application for a station license. Indicate that you take your own equipment on board rented vessels that do not already have a station license.

Eric
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Old 17-11-2009, 13:31   #6
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Hmm... I am stumped too; I don't understand your question .

You rent a sailboat that presumably has a marine HF set on board. Surely the rental outfit has a FCC station license for the set, how else could they have fitted the set (legally). Again I am presuming a reputable rental outfit.

It is not clear (to me) from your post if you have a marine HF operators certificate but again assuming you do if you are planning to use the set, you should be good to go on air.

You can hold a operators certificate that allows you to use a licensed set. The owner of the set has to have the station licence (which any good renatl outfit would have IMO).

The situation that I'm encountering is one where there is no HF rig already installed on the vessel. I have my own, and it's a fairly simple matter to set up an HF antenna. I've been legally using that set up on the amateur bands (where I only need a ham license to operate on the ham bands - the vessel doesn't need to be licensed).

In the case of rentals, the assumption is that the renter will never leave domestic coastal waters, and so only an unlicensed VHF radio is provided (which is legal).

With a GMDSS Operator/Maintainer license, I am licensed to operate anything that a ship could have aboard. The problem is that these rentals don't have maritime mobile licenses and assigned call signs -- requirements for operation on the HF and MF maritime radio bands.
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Old 17-11-2009, 13:37   #7
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I'm with Mark.
Maybe it's just the anarchist in me, but gummint is usually the problem not the solution.

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Old 17-11-2009, 13:42   #8
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I like your idea of using an inflatable life raft. Heck, just buy a ten dollar air mattress at Walmart, leave it in the box it came in and sit on it while transmitting. Who says your vessel must be inflated?
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Old 17-11-2009, 14:48   #9
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Thanks everyone for your replies.

I need to be hyper-compliant: since I'm a licensed commercial operator, I would expect the FCC to have no sympathy if I bent the rules.

After doing some more digging for an answer, I found it in its usual obvious location: buried under a rock on the far side of the Moon.

Here's the answer: The FCC on-line form allows a few different ways to license. The most common is the vessel radio license. However, you can also register as 'portable' which is quite literally what is means. You can transport your station from vessel to vessel.

On FCC Form 605, the Radio Service Code is "SA", and on page two, line 4 "Type of License", enter "P" for "portable."
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Old 17-11-2009, 16:55   #10
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Do you think they are going to go after you?

They are more concerned about shutting down R/TV Free America (F*x News)
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Old 17-11-2009, 17:05   #11
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Well using your call sign for a Forum name probably isn't the best way to not draw attention of those you don't want attention from.... know what I'm saynnnnn
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Old 17-11-2009, 17:06   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8QH View Post
The situation that I'm encountering is one where there is no HF rig already installed on the vessel. I have my own, and it's a fairly simple matter to set up an HF antenna. I've been legally using that set up on the amateur bands (where I only need a ham license to operate on the ham bands - the vessel doesn't need to be licensed).

In the case of rentals, the assumption is that the renter will never leave domestic coastal waters, and so only an unlicensed VHF radio is provided (which is legal).

With a GMDSS Operator/Maintainer license, I am licensed to operate anything that a ship could have aboard. The problem is that these rentals don't have maritime mobile licenses and assigned call signs -- requirements for operation on the HF and MF maritime radio bands.
Thanks for the explanation, I misread your initial problem.
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Originally Posted by N8QH View Post
Thanks everyone for your replies.

I need to be hyper-compliant: since I'm a licensed commercial operator, I would expect the FCC to have no sympathy if I bent the rules.

After doing some more digging for an answer, I found it in its usual obvious location: buried under a rock on the far side of the Moon.

Here's the answer: The FCC on-line form allows a few different ways to license. The most common is the vessel radio license. However, you can also register as 'portable' which is quite literally what is means. You can transport your station from vessel to vessel.

On FCC Form 605, the Radio Service Code is "SA", and on page two, line 4 "Type of License", enter "P" for "portable."
Good to see you found the solution even though it was hidden under the "gummit" rock.

For the record, I share the views who see the "gummit" more of an obstruction than the solution .
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Old 17-11-2009, 18:15   #13
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I was under the impression that if you have a 'base' station license, then you are also allowed to operate portable units under the base station license and identifying with the same callsign, optionally adding a '1' or '2' (or whatever) after the callsign to identify the portable unit(s) to the base station. And I do not recall any limitations on how far the portable units can operate from the base....presumably they could venture off on their own and still constitute a 'station', albeit a portable one, under the original base station license and callsign.
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Old 17-11-2009, 18:44   #14
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I really fail to understand the problem. If you're "renting" a sailboat you're probably not out of cell phone range. Why do you need HF?
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Old 17-11-2009, 22:52   #15
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Problem solved, license issued.

The reasons I need HF: There are some excellent islands to visit along the California coast that are either beyond cell phone range or obscure cell phone coverage along their western perimeters. Also, Mexico is a short sail from San Diego and Los Angeles. If I ever get in trouble there, it's a sure bet that I'll be using HF to "phone home."

I don't see any need to obscure my identity here. We Hams communicate all the time on forums using our call signs in the clear - and we all know how simple it is to look up oneanother's address on the FCC ULS database. I doubt that the SWAT Team will repel in through my windows at 4 AM because I'm trying to abide by the FCC's rules....

That having been said, here's the "portable" license I got today: ULS License - Ship Recreational or Voluntarily Equipped License - WDF2783 - Bryant, Patrick D.

Thanks everyone for your comments. They are all taken as helpful and in good humor.
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