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Old 23-07-2019, 19:55   #1
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Raymarine SeatalkNG network

Hello Cruisers!!


We bought a used sailboat and we are facing some problems with our AP, it works erratic...
It works for a couple random minutes until you get a Drive Stopped or Off Course message.

I am not an expert but by reading FAQs on Raymarine forum I could compare my network
with a SeatalkNG network example from their website, and it just doesnt look right.

Here is what it looks different from manuals or the website example:

- the backbone is interrupted with a T that connects a STNG bus to a ST1STNG with a SPUR
- E95 plotter and AIS are connected to a STNG bus that is linked to a ST1STNG with a SPUR
- iTC5 is linked to a ST1STNG converter with a SPUR


I can provide you all information about devices installed and their respective software versions
but I feel I must get an advice on the network before even trying to find any defective device.


Here I have a layout of the network as it is. Is there something wrong with it?
The previous owner said it was a good certified technician that designed this network.

Can I trust his technician?


Thanks in advance and fair winds for all cruisers!!
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Old 23-07-2019, 21:03   #2
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Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG network

Nope thatís not correct. Lionk all the5 way connectors with blue backbone cable. You can eliminate the 12/25 dc block and use the T to connect a red/black power cable. Connecting the ITC5 with device is ok but the 5 way needs a terminator.
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Old 23-07-2019, 21:58   #3
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Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG network

Although not to standards. I doubt it’s effecting anything. Replacing the white spurs with blue backbone cables and that single tee. does not change anything electrically.

The bus with the ais is wrong but again. Likly not causing your issue. It’s a minor thing.

A failed network would cause a no pilot error.

Your issue is Likly something else.

But no. The guy who wired it like that I would not trust.

Is the tri seatalk ng or seatalk? As it appears to be going to a seatalk converter. Also looks like your power is coming via a seatalk converter which is also funny.
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Old 24-07-2019, 06:22   #4
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Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG network

You are missing a bunch of terminators, but that is probably not the problem.
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Old 24-07-2019, 08:12   #5
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Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG network

Thank you for your reply Cat36Mahalo, Smac999 and TheOffice!!


The TRI is a ST60 Seatalk and yes, the power for the backbone comes
from the breaker panel to the yellow connector on ST1STNG converter.

Pilot seems to work well sometimes until it "freezes" and show a
DRIVE STOPPED or OFF COURSE warning randomy, mostly drive stopped.

After these errors we found out our MAX DEVIATION was 188 DEGREES.
We cruised for hours, we did 8 figures and 360s but we were not
able to lower or change this deviation number in any way.

Then we went for the EV-1 to check it, following its cable we found
a dubious network feeding the device with no attention to the manuals.

Our EV-1 is at 1.5ft of the ACU200... I know I know... 3FT AT LEAST!
We have plenty space down there to place the EV-1 in a safe distance.

We then connected the EV-1 on another bus away from the ACU200 but
the MAX DEVIATION has not changed... mother got seasick from turning!
hahaha

The AutoPilot kept working erratic with this configuration, so we
decided to map the network and ask for some help... here we are!

We also found one cut open SPUR cable that connects the plotter to
the powered ST1STNG bus... the wires inside it all look intact tho.


We are going to lay a new basic network and see if the pilot works,
then we may link it all with correct cables and buses, one by one.



We will keep you updated about our progress!!


Thank you all again!!
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Old 24-07-2019, 08:25   #6
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Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG network

The disjointed network will cause ringing on the signal. It is not the same electrically as suggested, because of how signals travel thru the wire.

The main reason RM differentiated blue for backbone and white for Devices is to make it harder to split the backbone and end up with a topology like this.

Do yourself a favor and buy some blue backbone cables and your problems will probably go away.
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Old 24-07-2019, 08:34   #7
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Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG network

Thank you very much Cat36Mahalo, we will proceed on fixing this mess first!
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Old 24-07-2019, 09:24   #8
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Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG network

I get occasional drive stopped messages from my pilot as well. It started after the last software update. I don't get an off course message, but very occasionally it will drop into standby mode for no apparent reason and I'll suddenly find myself off course.



If your deviation is not changing, are you sure you have your system in the correct mode when you are trying to calibrate it? There is a deviation "locked" mode that will not correct the deviation no matter how many circles and figure 8s you do. Don't ask me how I know. The setting was buried down in one of the AP menus, but it's been 4 years since I corrected the problem and I don't remember the path to get there.



Your configuration certainly does not resemble anything in the Seatalkng manuals, but I'm not sure it's not electrically OK. It looks like it was put together by someone with lots of extra spur cables and no backbone cables. Effectively your backbone is is connected via spurs and that is certainly not the way Raymarine designed the system. I would get some backbone cables and connect it the way Raymarine designed to to be put together. One thing to check is to make sure that the ACU-200 is not supplying power to the backbone as well. For what it's worth I don't think your AP issues are related to your backbone layout, because mine is absolutely according to the book and I have the same issues.
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Old 24-07-2019, 09:51   #9
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Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG network

The Raymarine forum is a fantastic resource, with RM experts answering posts.

I recently installed an RM Evolution A/P and had symptoms similar to what you describe. I found the solution on the RM forum. It turns out that this A/P uses speed through the water (STW) as an input to its control laws. My paddle wheel is on the network, but doesn't spin and needs to be cleaned. That zero STW made the Evolution unusable after a few minutes. It would hold course, then start divergent oscillations until disconnected. I let it go as far as +/- 90 deg to see if it would recover before disconnecting. The solution was to use a hidden setting to tell the A/P to use GPS SOG in-lieu of STW. Works perfectly now.
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Old 24-07-2019, 10:03   #10
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Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG network

Thank you Captain Bill!!

The softwares on our boat are all outdated factory release versions.

I know these updates are very important to get it working properly
but I found this mess on the network and I should work on it first, right??

I also found two COMPASS LOCK in different menus, Im sure they are all OFF!!

I will check if the ACU200 is also powering the backbone, I dont remember now!!
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Old 24-07-2019, 10:21   #11
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Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG network

Neflier, thanks for your reply!!

I posted it on RM forums some days ago but they seem too busy right now and I am
kind in a hurry to figure it out so I can ask for a warranty repair from the previous owner!

Howsoever, he will ask me to look for the same technician that created that network..

You know, I can not trust him... If I can fix it myself, im sure it will be a reliable network!
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Old 24-07-2019, 10:48   #12
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Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG network

I had a similar issue and it tuned out that my rudder sensor was done. Even though the indicators on AP head corresponded with the movement of the rudder, when i tested the resistance, they were just slightly off, like .002 off the raymarine factory numbers. This was enough to make my whole system go nuts. You can also test you compass in the same way while your at it.
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Old 24-07-2019, 11:43   #13
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Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG network

Thanks for the reply "Dad"!!


Rudder transducer seems to be working and showing on display but anyway,
I just included a check of the resistance on the rudder transducer on to do list!!

I will compare to RM parameters I found on their forums:

Rudder Reference Test


I will post its actual readings as soon as I have them!!
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Old 24-07-2019, 12:04   #14
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Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG network

Its super easy and you can do the compass at the same time.


you will need a second person to test the rudder sensor, you need to move and watch the Ohms, probably just easier to have someone turn the wheel than disassemble the whole system.


thanks
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Old 24-07-2019, 12:14   #15
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Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG network

I had a weird problem with my Raymarine. It would randomly do strange things like turning 90 degrees. Long story short, it was because I had a folding chair on a shelf above the heading sensor. When I removed the chair everything worked fine! Check for the simple things before going too far....
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