Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-01-2018, 17:26   #1
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 13,580
Raymarine SeatalkNG cable question

I am connecting my old Seatalk speed and depth display to my NMEA2000 network. That requires several steps. First I need a Raymarine converter to turn the old Seatalk signals into the NMEA2000 compatible SeatalkNG.

Next step, since Raymarine decided to use different cables than the rest of the industry I have to use a SeatalkNG cable to the converter then attach a standard NMEA2000 connector on the other end to connect to my backbone.

So to the question. The Rarmarine converter came with a 1 meter long cable designated as a spur cable. but the instructions say to use a Raymarine backbone cable to connect the converter to the backbone of the NMEA2000.

The "spur" cable has the same plugs as the backbone plugs on the Raymarine converter but are they the same, completely interchangeable? Although the plugs are the same I don't know if the spur and backbone cables are wired the same IE no crossovers or unused pins.
__________________

__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.

Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.

Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2018, 17:40   #2
Registered User
 
Ziggy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: U.S., Northeast
Boat: Contessa 32
Posts: 1,441
Images: 2
Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG cable question

I'm not sure I completely understand the question, but Raymarine makes spur cables with a seatalkNG connector on one end and a standard deviceNet connector on the other, which allows you to tap into a standard NMEA2K DeviceNet backbone. They work fine, although it's annoying to have to buy them. As far as I know, no one sells a way to interconnect a DeviceNet backbone with a SeatalkNG backbone. You have to make your own interconnect using field installable connectors.
__________________

__________________
... He knows the chart is not the sea.
-- Philip Booth, Chart 1203
Ziggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2018, 17:51   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 13,580
Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG cable question

I looked at the original question and realized it was not very clear, so let me try to simplify, leaving out all the extraneous details.

Raymarine for their SeatalkNG systems refers to spur cables and backbone cables.

A Raymarine converter has connections labeled for spur and backbone cables. The connections on that converter are identical so I can plug any cable into any connection. If the connections on the converter are identical does that mean spur cables and backbone cables are also identical? Are they the same cables but called different names depending on what you connect them to?
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.

Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.

Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2018, 20:08   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 13,580
Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG cable question

OK, after RTFM for the umteenth time AND going back to the Raymarine forums AND looking more closely at the converter and cables I think I have answered my own question.

The Raymarine SeatalkNG spur cable and the backbone cables do appear to be different. The matching pin/plug connections I was looking at on the converter were for yet another cable that does match but it wasn't the backbone cable.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.

Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.

Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2018, 00:04   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 2,310
Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG cable question

The blue ng backbone cables and the white ng drop cables have different connectors and do not interchange.

Personally when using that converter to go n2k to seatalk. I often use a drop cable to the converter. And don't worry about the blues. It becomes a single drop from the n2k network. If you want to connect 2 or more stng cables to the converter. Then It's no longer a single drop and you'd have to put it on the backbone. Then you'd have one n2k terminator a one stng terminator.
smac999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2018, 04:43   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 13,580
Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG cable question

Quote:
Originally Posted by smac999 View Post
The blue ng backbone cables and the white ng drop cables have different connectors and do not interchange.
Thank you. This confirms what I was finally starting to figure out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by smac999 View Post
Personally when using that converter to go n2k to seatalk. I often use a drop cable to the converter. And don't worry about the blues. It becomes a single drop from the n2k network. If you want to connect 2 or more stng cables to the converter. Then It's no longer a single drop and you'd have to put it on the backbone. Then you'd have one n2k terminator a one stng terminator.
I originally planned to connect the converter as a drop to a T on the n2k network but Raymarine tech support specifically instructed connecting it as a part of the n2k backbone, either on the end using a STng terminator on the converter or in the middle of the n2k network using two backbone cables to the two blue connections.

With my layout it might be a little easier to install the converter as a drop so think I will give that a try.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.

Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.

Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2018, 05:16   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Saint Thomas, USVI
Boat: Fountaine Pajot Lipari 41
Posts: 303
Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG cable question

You should be able to use an NG to Nema cable directly onto the converter. The yellow plug in the middle is for the Seat Talk to NG. You also need to plug the power cable provided with the converter into one of the white plugs. Then the second white plug will be the nema adapter cable. The two blue plugs should be terminated.
Jay
captainjay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2018, 07:24   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 13,580
Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG cable question

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainjay View Post
You should be able to use an NG to Nema cable directly onto the converter. The yellow plug in the middle is for the Seat Talk to NG. You also need to plug the power cable provided with the converter into one of the white plugs. Then the second white plug will be the nema adapter cable. The two blue plugs should be terminated.
Jay
Hi Jay and thanks for the reply.

Here's where I'm at on the converter.

Yellow plug. That one was pretty clear and I'm connecting the included cable from that to the Seatalk plug on the Rarmarine display.

Blue plugs. Raymarine said terminate one blue plug and run a cable from the second blue plug to the end of the NMEA backbone replacing the terminator. You and smac999 both suggest using the white plug to run a cable to the NMEA as a drop and blue to backbone. Since I don't plan to add any additional Seatalk or STng devices this seems to be the best plan.

White plugs. Raymarine TS also said the converter would get it's power from the NMEA backbone (assuming that is powered which it is) and not to use the power supply to the converter. Any comments on this?

I am getting the impression that this isn't as tricky or demanding as Raymarine makes it out to be. Probably some manufacturer CYA going on in their instructions?
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.

Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.

Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2018, 13:59   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Genoa
Boat: Jeanneau 49DS
Posts: 156
Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG cable question

If nothing else, this thread confirms me in my hesitation about buying anything made by Raymarine. First a proprietary bus. Then proprietary NMEA 2000 connectors.

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that the whole idea of 2000 was to be able to mix and match as it is essentially just Ethernet.
Alita49DS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2018, 14:21   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: East Coast USA
Boat: Catalina 400
Posts: 286
Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG cable question

Skipmac,

Is it possible that Raymarine's instructions about installing the converter using the blue backbone connections is only for installations on a RM ng buss?
kenbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2018, 15:07   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 13,580
Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG cable question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alita49DS View Post
If nothing else, this thread confirms me in my hesitation about buying anything made by Raymarine. First a proprietary bus. Then proprietary NMEA 2000 connectors.

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that the whole idea of 2000 was to be able to mix and match as it is essentially just Ethernet.
As I understand it and according to Raymarine, they are 100% standard NMEA2000 compatible with their SeatalkNG system (but not the old Seatalk) except for the connectors that are specific to Raymarine. Not sure about all manufacturers but Garmin, Simrad and B&G (both Navico companies) and I think several others use the same "standard" connectors.

Again, based on my newbie to NMEA understanding and according to Raymarine, one can just attach a "standard" NMEA connector to a cable from a SeatalkNG device and it will plug and play on any NMEA2000 system. Haven't yet tried it with Raymarine but I can say I connected my Garmin GPS to my Simrad autopilot and they work together perfectly. Pure plug and play, same cables, no hassle setup or programming. It was amazing.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.

Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.

Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2018, 15:12   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 13,580
Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG cable question

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenbo View Post
Skipmac,

Is it possible that Raymarine's instructions about installing the converter using the blue backbone connections is only for installations on a RM ng buss?
I don't think so unless I'm still confused on some of the details.

I went onto the Raymarine tech support forums and asked about this issue and got a very detailed reply from the Raymarine tech that runs the site. It seemed pretty clear to me that they want you to use the blue plugs and connect the converter as part of the backbone; on one end or the middle, they gave instructions for both options.

Here's the link to the discussion. Would love to hear your interpretation of the instructions.

Seatalk to Garmin 740s?
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.

Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.

Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2018, 15:33   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: East Coast USA
Boat: Catalina 400
Posts: 286
Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG cable question

I read it. Do you have easy access to one end of your current backbone? If so that seems the best solution. One blue connection to your current backbone end, terminator on the other blue connector. Yellow caps in place on yellow connectors and provided st to ng cable from white connector to st instrument. Power feed ONLY from your original backbone.
kenbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2018, 15:35   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: East Coast USA
Boat: Catalina 400
Posts: 286
Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG cable question

I believe the very latest Raymarine products are now using standard device net cable and connections.
kenbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2018, 15:35   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 13,580
Re: Raymarine SeatalkNG cable question

One aspect of the whole NMEA thing that has taken a bit of work for me has been learning the terminology used by the different manufacturers, made more complicated because they like to use cool sounding names that don't really explain what they are or mean. It would have been a LOT easier if I had a dictionary of everyone's trade names and terms for this stuff.

Like SeatalkNG which is Raymarine's name for their NMEA system that seems compatible but uses connectors different from everyone else.

Devicenet I think is the name for the more common (dare I call them standard) connectors used by Garmin and Navico and others. Then under Devicenet there are mini and micro connectors.

Everyone including Raymarine seems to call the main line the backbone but Ray calls the links to individual devices a spur, everyone else calls it a drop.

I found a couple of online articles and resources but it still took a lot of reading and thinking and took more to learn the Raymarine differences.
__________________

__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.

Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.

Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
marine, raymarine, seatalk

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: Two Raymarine ST70 Multi Function Instrument Displays -(Seatalk or SeaTalkNG) jefndeb General Classifieds (no boats) 5 18-07-2017 08:39
For Sale: Raymarine Seatalk1 to Seatalkng Converter Yeti Classifieds Archive 3 14-02-2015 00:38
Connecting seatalkng ben373 OpenCPN 17 24-01-2015 05:02
Raymarine SmartPilot X5 and SeatalkNG tv195 Marine Electronics 6 26-03-2014 18:25
SeaTalkng and NEMA2000 Data Meriachee Marine Electronics 1 27-07-2012 09:59



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:08.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.