Raymarine EV 100 Tiller Pilot review

[RobertLeask]

I have a double ender with outboard rudder and can't have a rudder sensor, and need an autopilot that can work without one. Somewhere I got the notion that these units can work without one, but from what I'm hearing on this thread and from the Raymarine website, I must have been mistaken, or mislead. It does steer without a rudder sensor, but not very well. Standalone tillerpilots like Simrad or the old Tillermaster work fine without a followup.

[ctl411]

I use a Ev100 wheel drive on our 50 foot ketch. Bought as a "get by" measure until I can spend 4 times the amount for a below deck. It has done a fair job for a few years now. The drive will get warm/hot if used many hours sailing down wind in seas big enough to move the stern around. Part of the "heating up" problem was the speed sensor got fouled. The system likes info, speed, rudder angle etc. The more info the better. Meaning less wheel movement for given conditions. I've been pleased with mine but I give it rudder and speed info. On a prior boat I had Rays older 4000 system. First without rudder sensor then with. Much better with and the EV is a better system than the old St system.

[RobertLeask]

Unfortunately nobody I can find makes tillerpilots rated for a boat this size. Pelagic does not rate their systems for length or displacement, which I take as an indication they know what they're doing. The factors that matter are sea conditions, rudder balance, sailplan balance and hull type. My boat has excellent directional stability and balance, and is very easy steering.

All I can do when shopping for an autopilot is look for the highest ratings. The Simrad TP32 is actually rated a bit lower than the RM, but it does the job. The drive that ships with the EV 100 is a no hoper.

I found some encouraging information on a singlehanding website, apparently the Pelagic drive does not respond the same as the RM, so when I get a chance to recalibrate maybe this unit can be made to perform.

[uncle stinkybob]

Is this a review on Raymarine ev100 or people who "think" they can ignore manufacturer's guidelines and then blame the manufacturer? Kinda like buying a cat and bitching that it can't bark like a dog. By the way, my ev100 installed last year on a boat it's rated for. It works very well.

[RobertLeask]

Originally Posted by uncle stinkybob

Is this a review on Raymarine ev100 or people who "think" they can ignore manufacturer's guidelines and then blame the manufacturer? Kinda like buying a cat and bitching that it can't bark like a dog. By the way, my ev100 installed last year on a boat it's rated for. It works very well.

Point taken, I really should have called this thread EV 100 TILLERPILOT review. the controllers do seem to work well when connected to an appropriately sized below deck drive, with a rudder position sensor. Comparing the performance of the tillerpilot with below deck units is indeed a case of cats versus dogs. I'll conclude this by saying I am very unimpressed with the RM tiller drive, and give it two thumbs down. If you have a tiller steered boat don't buy it.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by RobertLeask

(...)

My boat is a 37 foot double ender well above the rated displacement for this drive unit, but

(...)

You have basically answered your own query.

A friend has a 4 tonne open 40 boat driven with this tiller arm. It is not stellar but it seems to work fine.

So apparently the arm is not the problem.

You can try the GP arm except that overall you simply want a way stronger drive.

Cheers,
b.

[Brewgyver]

Rudder sensors are typically required with wheel steering, not with tiller drives. Some people have reported improved performance by adding the rudder position sensor to their tiller drive setups.

[toddedger]

Mine works flawlessly on my 7000 lbs boat with a balanced spade rudder. I don't think you should be bad mouthing it for not being able to do something it was not designed for. Your comments are filled with the term " I think". You obviously thought wrong. You should have checked with Raymarine and followed their guidelines before your purchase. Software algorithms designed for smaller boats obviously don't work for larger boats like yours. Thats not the fault of Raymarine is it?

[ctl411]

Originally Posted by Brewgyver

Rudder sensors are typically required with wheel steering, not with tiller drives. Some people have reported improved performance by adding the rudder position sensor to their tiller drive setups.

Yup, but the main complaint I would have with Ray is the "optional" part. Yup it's optional if you want marginal performance with much increased amp draw lol.

[Brewgyver]

Originally Posted by RobertLeask

Point taken, I really should have called this thread EV 100 TILLERPILOT review. the controllers do seem to work well when connected to an appropriately sized below deck drive, with a rudder position sensor. Comparing the performance of the tillerpilot with below deck units is indeed a case of cats versus dogs. I'll conclude this by saying I am very unimpressed with the RM tiller drive, and give it two thumbs down. If you have a tiller steered boat don't buy it.

Sorry, but I don't think you can say "point taken" and then repeat what you got wrong to start with. Using that tiny drive on your boat is like trying to drive a 16 penny framing nail into an oak timber with a tack hammer. As pointed out above, you could try the RM GP (Gand Prix) drive, but your particular boat/rudder configuration may overwhelm it, too. I have a GP drive on my tiller-steered Catalina 30, and it performs very well under sail, as long as I'm well trimmed. I have an early C30 with the original rudder, and itt can be quite heavy to steer while motoring. Catalina redesigned the rudder about a year after my boat was made. I can imagine your rudder is even heavier. You probably need the very robust Type 2 linear drive, you may want to talk to RM tech support about the feasibility of pairing that with the EV100, might need to incorporate a triac relay. If you need to upgrade, you can probably find a happy buyer for your existing equipment, providing you haven't killed it. That first statement about the drive unit sounds like it's gears may be compromised. Hope you can sort it out!

[jacktheflyer]

Originally Posted by ctl411

I use a Ev100 wheel drive on our 50 foot ketch. Bought as a "get by" measure until I can spend 4 times the amount for a below deck. It has done a fair job for a few years now. The drive will get warm/hot if used many hours sailing down wind in seas big enough to move the stern around. Part of the "heating up" problem was the speed sensor got fouled. The system likes info, speed, rudder angle etc. The more info the better. Meaning less wheel movement for given conditions. I've been pleased with mine but I give it rudder and speed info. On a prior boat I had Rays older 4000 system. First without rudder sensor then with. Much better with and the EV is a better system than the old St system.

I also bought the EV100 as a "get by" and 4yrs later am still using it. Fitted to a 12m Cat of 7tonne dry weight using the wheel pilot option which would be the equivalent to the tiller pilot. It hasn't been without some installation issues and struggles with windward helm above 8.5kts.

However my experience when first installed was similar to your description of wildly over correcting driving the rudder from one side to the other. The problem turned out to be where the EV100 gets its speed indication from. The original version sought to use the paddle wheel which as in most boats is seized from marine growth. Later firmware versions corrected this issue and it now uses the gps speed and works perfectly. If you have it as a stand alone system without a speed input then perhaps this is the issue. Speed measurement is critical to the amount of gain applied to the rudder. The slower the speed the more gain.

Scrubby

[RobertLeask]

Sorry for venting, but this autopilot represents over a months income for a pensioner like me. I do think I can get it to work if I keep trying. Steering power is not the issue. Even the original drive has adequate power, the problem with it is that it creeps, loses its center setting and needs resetting every few minutes in.anything more than flat calm. The Pelagic drive is more powerful and does not creep.

The problems I'm having now are with the steering algorythm and I'm hoping a reset and recalibration might fix that. The lack of a speed input might also be part of the problem, I do have one, I installed it at the same time as the autopilot. That's another electronic issue I have, it's made by NASA in England, and it has a single NMEA output wire. Ive tried wiring it into the Seatalk net in various ways, without success. I tried contacting them but no reply. I don't know how to wire it with only the single wire.

I gather that you can change the response time setting during the calibration process, will do that when I'm in a calmer place with more room to maneuver.

[Pete7]

Thread title edited as requested.

Regards Pete

[mawtty]

When I set a course or 'go to' the pilot first goes to the course then tracks on the course. It appears that it is yawing wildly but it is just going to the exact part in the course nearest to your current position. It soon settles down on that course.
My only annoyance is that it reacts too quickly to boat motion and is constantly adjusting for changes in heel and pitch.
It works just fine when I am motoring but I would rather use a Flemming servo pendulum vane for offshore sailing.
Sent from a Northshore 33 sloop.

[RobertLeask]

I'm realizing why some people following this thread are misunderstanding what the problem is, I should have been clearer about why I had to replace the tiller drive. When I first relaunched after the installation I tested it in sheltered waters and it all seemed to.work fine. However when I took my first trip on the open sea it was in light and variable conditions with about a 3 foot following sea. It would hold a course for a while, then start beeping when it failed to get back on course. When I looked at what it was doing the rudder would be a little bit to one side, but the controller would think it was hard over the other way. Then I discovered that it was quite easy to force the drive motor while engaged, I can easily do it with one hand, I would say about 50 lbs pressure is all it takes. So the side to side kick from the waves was causing it to creep, necessitating a course reset every few minutes. My assumption at the time was that the clutch was defective in the drive unit. Later I found out that it doesn't have one. The only thing holding it on its rudder setting is friction and there isn't much.

You can't fix what's not there so I ordered the new drive unit, they assured me it would not have the creep problem of the original one, and it doesn't. It does work much, much better than the original but I can't say I'm happy with this autopilot. I'll repeat here again: do not buy this drive unit. It's poorly designed and there are better ones out there for less money. I remain optimistic that I can get the electronics to work acceptability well, but, my rating of the drive is DO NOT BUY.

A little more info might also help to clarify why I started this thread. I installed this autopilot to replace another one which had a heavy duty electric/hydraulic drive and a rudder position sensor. It involved a lot of work and expense. The dealer told me it was suitable for both power and sailing vessels. When I took it to sea I found that it worked well enough under power but very badly under sail. The reason became obvious soon enough, whoever wrote the steering algorythm thought that when a boat is on course the rudder should be amidships. So after much hunting and yawing it would settle on course, then the rudder would center, and start the cycle over again.

That autopilot is in the landfill somewhere now, good riddance. But I'm wondering what's wrong with this industry, where things are made and sold with glaring design defects, the sellers don't seem to give a care whether the product works or not once it's out the door.