Raymarine Electronics Upgrade Advice?

[Capers38]

This is all great information. I am pleased to hear that it sounds like the Raymarine converters from NMEA 0183 to NMEA 2000 generally work and I am not limited to a Raymarine MFD/GPS/radar. That helps immensely.

[BenFranklyn]

Hi Capers,

Here is a bit of advise to keep you up at night thinking about how this could all turn horribly ugly.

I recently updated my Nordia 49 with a complete Raymarine suite. Over the first 2 seasons of operation you can see just how much of the install has gone bad. And no the install was not done poorly but by a recommended established Dutch company and the repairs were implemented by just about every Raymarine service dealer on both sides of the Channel. No one could understand why we had such a terrible reliability rate.

My feeling is that the discrete electronic components are being sourced from the lowest bidders in China and that the MTBF is now measured in hundreds of hours not thousands.

Try to keep as many back up and/or non-integrated components as possible. Forget the fancy i70 units they are just not reliable keep it simple.

Good luck...

Raymarine i70 wind instruments – 3 x units (2015). (2 units completely failed)
Raymarine wind sender unit on mast (2015). (Unit failed due to water incursion into head)
Raymarine e127 multi-function display (2015). (Serious issues with software, req numerous upgrades)
Raymarine c97 multi-function display (2015).
Raymarine P319 depth/temperature sender (2015).
Raymarine AIS 650 class B transponder (2015). (Failure of unit)
Raymarine AIS 100 splitter (2015).
Raymarine Raystar 130 GPS (2015). (2 separate GPS heads failed)
Raymarine RayMic 260E VHF radio – 2 x units Nav Station, Cockpit (2015). (1 of the hand units failed)
Simrad AP 28 autopilot (backup) (2015). (mounting hardware failure)
Raymarine HD colour radar RD424HD (2015).
Raymarine upgraded sonar transponder (2015).
Raymarine Autopilot, S3G (Approx. 2006).
Raymarine Smart controller for Autopilot. (4 units failed and were replaced under warrantee)

Had additional sub-systems that also had problems but you get the idea.

[Pizzazz]

You have a very robust system and I recommend you think twice before upgrading. The only thing you are missing is AIS as the Pathfinder displays do not support it. If you only need to add AIS, then upgrading the two displays to a pair of older E80 series displays is the painless way to go. You will get AIS, a higher resolution display and get to keep your charts, everything stays the same. Approx. $1000 in all. This is the best you can do with that generation of radar.

If you want a full upgrade, you need to start with the radar. In order to get better performance than what you have you need to go to a Raymarine HD radar plus two displays then buy the converters for the other instruments. One option is to get the Quantum radar, use the existing cable for power and do wireless for the radar data. Not optimal but it can save you the joy of pulling the cable. The Quantum radar will give you similar performance to your analog radar.

[Hoodsail]

Just an FYI if you go w/ the latest Garmin wind pack - earlier this year when the boat was on the hard, had the yard remove old electronics (depth, speed, wind) and install Garmin GNX wired sail pack. Well, I have been out sailing 3 times since and the instruments work for 10-15 minutes then data goes to "------". turned all electronics off while sailing and booted all back up without effect. The owners manual was no help in troubleshooting so I called the yard. They discovered that Garmin had sent an incompatible system in the box, once updated it should be good for the
life of the system. Basically after 10 minutes the brain drops the
signals from the wind and depth transducers and starts looking for
other sources on the network. A new NMEA 2000 updater was ordered.
thnks
dave

[Capers38]

Pizzazz - That's an option I hadn't even considered, but I should as it is clearly the simplest and most cost effective in the short term. I'll look into that before taking a more complicated (and expensive) path.

[mawtty]

I am looking for an ST70 wind setup.
TULKU TIM

[jibstay]

I did a similar upgrade 18 months ago. I considered a larger chart plotter at the helm, but I went with a 7" unit and use an iPad elsewhere on board. I replaced all the ST60 units with ST70's and upgraded my radar, added AIS and XM Weather. I kept my existing wind, speed and depth transducers and my existing autopilot.

The only issue I had was with the wind transducer and that was solved with a firmware upgrade.

I might've considered Garmin if starting from scratch, but I've been very happy with Raymarine and especially with the C-Map charts.

[Cool Hand Luke]

Good thread!! I have a Raymarine C90w with a Raymarine ST70 wind gauge. Looking to upgrade, too. Definitely will follow this thread and the advice.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Capers38

This is all great information. I am pleased to hear that it sounds like the Raymarine converters from NMEA 0183 to NMEA 2000 generally work and I am not limited to a Raymarine MFD/GPS/radar. That helps immensely.

Yes, you got it right.

* 0183 devices generally work fine on an N2K network. They're just a lot harder to hook up and power, and you don't have as much communication with them (for calibration etc.).

* N2K network is pretty agnostic about brands of equipment. Most N2K certified devices work just fine together. So pick whatever plotter and radar you like and/or is cheapest or otherwise fulfills your needs. All the modern ones seem to be really good; I don't think you can go wrong in your choice. The new Furuno radar is really intriguing, by the way.

* Getting 0183 data into an N2K network is straightforward and reliable. You don't need a converter -- most modern MFDs will do it internally and bridge the data onto the N2K network. The bigger challenge is getting Seatalk data transformed into 0183, but the ST70 instruments MIGHT do it; otherwise, convertor.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Capers38

I am hoping that some of you who are knowledgeable about Raymarine products can provide your thoughts and advice. I recently bought a 38 foot sailboat for coastal cruising with a suite of older Raymarine electronics.* I'm looking to upgrade to a modern GPS, at a minimum, while using as much of the current backbone as possible.*


Here is what I currently have:


- Raymarine RL70 radar/GPS/chartplotter at helm and chart table

- Raymarine ST70 wind

- Raymarine ST70 speed/depth/temp

- Raymarine Autohelm Autopilot ST6002 at helm (with control unit below)*


The radar and GPS both work, but the GPS is so old that it's essentially useless (to me anyway).* Right now everything is integrated (i.e., RL70 at helm shows GPS, radar, wind, speed, depth, and temp and talks to the autopilot).* But if it makes the upgrade easier, I'm fine having GPS/radar separate from speed/depth/temp/wind separate from autopilot.*


I am assuming I need to stay with Raymarine if I want to be able to keep the autopilot mechanism as-is.* If I could do it in stages and hold off on replacing the radar dome (on the mast) for an extra year, that would be great too. *


I've been looking at the Axiom series. If I went with Axiom, would I be able to get by with just getting two new GPS units (one at helm and one at chart table) and using SeaTalk connectors to convert the NMEA 0183 autopilot and radar dome?* Assuming it's possible to use the current radar dome, is it foolish not to upgrade the radar dome at the same time (setting aside the hassle of having to replace the dome on the mast and run new wires)? *


I would also like to install AIS in the coming years, in case that impacts your assessment.


Any thoughts and advice are appreciated.*

Normally, when I start talking to customers about integration, I ask, "How important is it that you can see this bit of data on your MFD, instead of glancing at that big dedicated display just over there?

Normally, not so much.

Chartplotting with radar and AIS overlays are nice but not essential.

Some may use Autohelm control by plotter track all the time. On my own boat I used this once. I use auto control by wind more than anything, but still that is rare.

I recommend the AXIOM MFD with Quantum radar. Very nice set-up and low power consumption. You can add AIS at any time. As I think someone mentioned you can use the old radar cable to power the new, and just use wireless between the Axiom and Quantum rather than a new cable.

Your Autohelm should continue to provide excellent service and is integrated with wind via Seatalk.

Raymarine Certified Installer / Service Provider

[Pizzazz]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Normally, when I start talking to customers about integration, I ask, "How important is it that you can see this bit of data on your MFD, instead of glancing at that big dedicated display just over there?

Normally, not so much.

Chartplotting with radar and AIS overlays are nice but not essential.
[...]
Raymarine Certified Installer / Service Provider

I beg to differ. The OP has a nice, fully integrated system and you suggest he give up functionality just to have newer electronics. He may as well end up being disappointed.

It is extremely re-assuring to see a radar/AIS overlay on the chart. You immediately know that the radar is calibrated correctly for the conditions (in order to use radar effectively one needs to adjust controls to correct for seastate, leading edge detection, etc. It is easy to forget the settings in manual mode and you would never know if the radar is working well or not unless you can correlate it to land/other objects). You can see if buoys have shifted due to tides/currents/waves. You can measure distances to objects and then from that object to land that may be behind the radar horizon but will show up on the chart. I can go on but integrated is the way to go.

Next, regarding separate displays vs. the chartplotter. It is a boat after all not an airplane. I personally like to have all data shown on the MFD and the other dedicated instruments our of sight. It is nice, clean and you can customize the display for racing, cruising, coastal, etc.

I believe we should be fair to the OP in that if he needs to match the performance of the current system, he needs to spend a considerable amount of money instead of pushing him with something inferior even if newer. Lastly, while I think the Quantum radar is great, it is comparable to the 3G radar. If the OP wants to have a truly better experience he needs to get the Raymarine HD radar. I would do that. The power consumption difference is too small to matter.

[dkenny64]

interesting thread.
I am looking to the same issues with just about the same equipment.
just the PO didn't have them all tied together. on purpose. the chart plotter didn't
talk with the auto pilot..how times have you seen in the news that a boat
ran aground on auto pilot?? I still have mixed feelings about this
I need the newer plotter and radar. my dome went for swim..long story for another time..
plotter charts are out of date.. ok for now..only local waters that we know
would like to AIS on the plotter.. have VHF rx and AIS class B transceiver
would like forward scan sonar( shallow water and reefs)
if money wasn't limited...

-dkenny

[sck5]

Go to the boat show and play with all of the equipment from the major manufacturers. That will tell you what you like the best. I did that when I equipped my old boat 8 years ago and picked Garmin witha raymarine autopilot. It all worked just fine. My new boat came with all raymarine equipment. It works but if I could pick I would go back to Garmin (the garmin HD radar was truly amazing)

One more consideration - If you are going to the Bahamas then seriously consider Garmin. Their charts were spot on. The navionics charts on my raymarine equipment were no good at all.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Normally, when I start talking to customers about integration, I ask, "How important is it that you can see this bit of data on your MFD, instead of glancing at that big dedicated display just over there?

Normally, not so much.

Chartplotting with radar and AIS overlays are nice but not essential.

. . .

If you're knocking around a lake, maybe, but in blue water, unless you have a separate radar display, you REALLY want the radar overlay, without which any radar navigation requires manual chart work.

AIS is somewhat usable on a separate display, but it is also very difficult to visualize the relationship to your position, waypoints, land features, sea lanes, TSS's, etc. if the targets are not overlaid on your plotter screen. Plus a separate AIS screen is a PITA to find space for and mount.

Track mode for your pilot is extremely useful in many situations.

Wind mode on your pilot is practically an essential feature for sailing long legs upwind -- you must integrate your pilot with the network to get this.

Display of data like depth, boat speed, wind in the data bar along the top of your plotter screen can be very valuable, depending on how your other instruments are configured, where they are, how visible from the helm, etc. For a plotter at the nav table, it may be the ONLY display of that data you have.

Your plotter needs heading data for different purposes.

Sailing specific plotters like the Zeus ones need boat speed and wind data to give you any of the sailing functions.


In short, I think it is very bad advice, to advise NOT fully integrating your electronics, except maybe for bowriders or party boats in a lake used only on Sundays. N2K networking is so easy, there is really no reason not to, in any case.

[Sandero]

I see no point in integration, preferring stand alone instrument data... the exception being AIS and Radar which need to be on a CHART.

The issue for some (many?) is the size of the screen and getting it where you need to be when operating a boat.... in the cockpit. Some go the route of these large pedestal / helm pods which put the skipper behind the helm. Large screens in the forward more visible location in the cockpit is hard to do. But cockpit dashes lend themselves to the smaller 4x4 data displays... and they can repeat GPS calcs like COG, SOG and so on.

In fact I rarely sit at the nav station looking at the MFD because I short hand I need to be on deck and on watch.

On Shiva which is a 36' sailboat with a large cockpit I added a stand alone B&G T7 plotter w/ built in GPS antenna to my cockpit by mounting it (portable) in a rarely used under the dodger winch. It can rotate and can be seen from anywhere in the cockpit. I have 7 - 4x4 displays on the dash: apparent wind angle, apparent wind speed, true wind speed, boat speed, GPS MFD (COG, SOD, BTW, DTW, TTG etc). compass, What do I need little numbers on the T78 when I have big ones right next to it?

This is a solution which works for me and the instruments / systems I have had evolving over 32 years. YES some of them are 32 years old... B&G and work perfectly... Now I have multiple screens - chartplotters... Ray C80. Standard CP170, Tablet, Smart phone, Garmin iQue 3600 B&G T7...

What do I use when sailing these days... what gets the most eyeball time? B&G T7... old B&G dash displays and the KVH sailcomp dash display.

I have my Ray alarm me with AIS and radar information... guard zone sort of thing...

This works for me and how I sail...

Find a solution that fits how you sail and your boats' architecture and ergonomics.