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Old 18-08-2013, 12:50   #1
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Raymarine E80 classic and NEMA 0183 issues

I have the E80 chartplotter, an SR161 AIS receiver and an Icom IC-M402 radio.
The E80 spits out GPS info onto it's NEMA 0183 port. AIS info is put out by the SR161 onto NEMA 0183. The Icom radio has a GPS input port.
The problem is that the AIS unit puts out 38400 baud to the chart plotter but the radio rquires 4800 baud from the chartplotter. I can set the E80 to either 38400 baud and receive AIS or I can set it to 4800 baud and the GPS coordinates are nicely fed to the Icom but I can't have both.
This seems fundamentally flawed since most radios seem to require 4800 baud GPS input and most AIS units send 38400 baud data. It seems difficult to understand how something this straight forward can be made this complex.
The previous owner of my boat did wire up the GPS feed to the radio but it seems he never actually verified that it worked (or ignored it).
From my digging, it would appear that I could install a multiplexor on the NEMA 0183 port and that would magically convert things somehow ? Is that a correct evaluation of the situation ?

I have also toyed with the idea of changing my SR161 unit (receive only) to an XB-8000 (full transponder). The XB-8000 seems to output both 38400 baud or 4800 baud but I don't know if it would solve the issue of the different NEMA speeds.

How do other people deal witht the GPS input feed for the VHF radio ? Is there such a thing as a cheap device that hooks up directly to the VHF radio to provide it the GPS data it wants ?

Your thoughts would be appreciated !
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Old 18-08-2013, 14:16   #2
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Re: Raymarine E80 classic and NEMA 0183 issues

Very similar question on the pbo forum recently:
Baud rates!!!!!
From the looks of the SR161 you're SOL without some additional hardware. I also note that it outputs rs232 and there's some warning blurb about it not being compatible with (rs422) raymarine e series, although it will doubtless "work".

Cheapest solution (as mentioned in the thread referenced above) is to acquire a cheap gps puck (with serial not usb ouput: same caveats re: 232 vs 422 as ever apply) and 5v power supply. This gives you the additional benefit of being able to have gps to the vhf with the plotter and AIS off.

Multiplexers aren't cheap but they'll do what you want. You'd want something that enables you to filter data to prevent the AIS sentences swamping the 4800 baud line to the VHF. You can knock up a dodgy homebrew one from something like a raspberry pi (or a laptop) but if you're asking this question in the first place I'd suggest you avoid that route.

If you're buying a transponder anyway you could look for one which incorporates a multiplexer. I believe the raymarine units do (though they're expensive). The XB-8000's 4800 baud line appears to be (do confirm this) input only: if so, that's not going to get your GPS data to the VHF.

Do consider what you don't mind having to have switched on to get GPS data to the VHF. I rarely switch on my AIS, only sometimes have the plotter on, but pretty much always want GPS on the VHF "just in case".

The cheap GPS puck solution has a lot to be said for it (not least, cost) but can be a bit of a faff with cutting the cables and hooking up suitable power.
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Old 18-08-2013, 15:09   #3
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Re: Raymarine E80 classic and NEMA 0183 issues

most plotters have more then one port. so you can make 1 4800 and 2 38400. if you only have one. there are mulitplexers you can buy.

some ais units also have multiplexing capabilities
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Old 18-08-2013, 15:51   #4
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e80 has only one NMEA port and the transmit and receive speeds can't be set separately. So you solution is either a 0183 mux that can handle the two speeds or separate GPS for radio. I maybe wrong , but I'm not sure once you switch to the high speed AIS baud rate , that you get all the info like GPS transmitted back out .

Dave
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Old 18-08-2013, 17:00   #5
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Re: Raymarine E80 classic and NEMA 0183 issues

JD1,
I think the posters who have said you are SOL interfacing all of your equipment via a single NMEA network are correct. You will need additional or different equipment. I use a Brookhouse AIS-C multiplexer for this purpose with my SR161 AIS receiver, ICOM M402 VHF, C120 MFD and a PC. That should work with your existing equipment.
You stated you are considering an AIS transponder with both 4800B and 38400B ports. Not knowing anything about the transponder you are considering, I still believe that it will likely also solve your networking issues. The transponders I'm familiar with output the AIS and GPS data on the 38400B port, and just GPS data on the 4800B port. So the 4800B port can supply GPS data to the VHF and the 38400B port can supply AIS data to the E80 MFD.
Of course the devil is in the details of that AIS transponder. The Brookhouse mux will provide a solution.

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Old 18-08-2013, 17:05   #6
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Re: Raymarine E80 classic and NEMA 0183 issues

Suggest separate GPS for Radio as this will probably be cheapest and easiest accomplished without additional hardware that is prone to problems.

2nd best option is to upgrade your plotter. That 8" screen can't be the easiest to work off of.
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Old 18-08-2013, 20:05   #7
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Re: Raymarine E80 classic and NEMA 0183 issues

Thanks for all the replies! I have contacted Vesper re the XB-8000 transponder and it looks like that will NOT solve the problem. The two options remaining are a multiplexer or a completely separate GPS for the radio. The latter seems the next best solution in that it is relatively cheap and it provides redundancy.
As per the thread Baud rates!!!!! that muttnik pointed out, I will look for a serial GPS puck and hook that up to the VHF.
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Old 18-08-2013, 20:16   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd1 View Post
Thanks for all the replies! I have contacted Vesper re the XB-8000 transponder and it looks like that will NOT solve the problem. The two options remaining are a multiplexer or a completely separate GPS for the radio. The latter seems the next best solution in that it is relatively cheap and it provides redundancy.
As per the thread Baud rates!!!!! that muttnik pointed out, I will look for a serial GPS puck and hook that up to the VHF.
Not just a serial GPS , it must output NMEA 0183

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Old 18-08-2013, 20:24   #9
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Re: Raymarine E80 classic and NEMA 0183 issues

Dave, I was under the impression that my SR161 AIS doesn't actually output NEMA 0183 yet it works and talks to the E80. I will re-read the thread about the puck to verify that I understood it correctly.
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Old 19-08-2013, 01:24   #10
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Re: Raymarine E80 classic and NEMA 0183 issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd1 View Post
Dave, I was under the impression that my SR161 AIS doesn't actually output NEMA 0183 yet it works and talks to the E80. I will re-read the thread about the puck to verify that I understood it correctly.
From the blurb, it puts out NMEA-0183v3 formatted sentences but the connection is RS232 rather than RS422. That means it's not strictly "NMEA-0183v3" (which is a specification for the whole stack): It's the right information, but transmitted in the electrical way a PC would normally want to receive it (with signals measured relative to ground, ie "single ended") rather than another NMEA-0183v3 compliant piece of equipment would ideally like it (with signals relative to each other ("+" and "-", ie "differential"). There's probably lots of posts on this but there's normally plenty of "wiggle room" so you can generally get away with using an rs232 output into an rs422 nmea input.

In fact this is what you generally have to do going down the cheap gps route. When you chop the plug off a br-355 you'll find yourself faced with a single signal wire rather than nmea "+" and "-". What you need to do is connect the signal wire to the nmea "+" input on the icom and double the br-355's electrical ground wire to the icom's nmea in "-". This does work fine despite not being completely pukka.

Once again, don't get a usb gps for this purpose. You want the ones which output serial nmea-0183 formatted data (the globalsat ones have this funny connector which physically resembles a PS/2 keyboard connector)
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Old 19-08-2013, 06:28   #11
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Re: Raymarine E80 classic and NEMA 0183 issues

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Originally Posted by Jd1 View Post
Dave, I was under the impression that my SR161 AIS doesn't actually output NEMA 0183 yet it works and talks to the E80. I will re-read the thread about the puck to verify that I understood it correctly.
it outputs 0183 all right
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Old 19-08-2013, 18:05   #12
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Re: Raymarine E80 classic and NEMA 0183 issues

the raymarine 650 AIS has a build in mutiplexer
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Old 19-04-2014, 16:51   #13
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Re: Raymarine E80 classic and NEMA 0183 issues

I got a Brookhouse iMux to "coordinate" the data speed among my older Raymarine RL70 and brand new Icom MA-500TR AIS, M802 SSB and M604 VHF. My particular model also transmits all of the data via WiFi to my iPad. You'll have to buy software for the iPad separately. I use iNavx. It's pretty cool to have all that data on my iPad anywhere I go on the boat, especially my bunk, so I can keep an eye on the midnight watch without going on deck!
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Old 24-04-2014, 11:44   #14
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Re: Raymarine E80 classic and NEMA 0183 issues

I used to have a SR161 AIS receiver. There is a way to change the output speed of the SR161 to 4800 baud. The procedure is outlined on page 11 of the SR161 manual. Link to manual here: http://milltechmarine.3dcartstores.c...S_Receiver.pdf

Additionally, a GPS can be connected to pin 3 on the SR161, and it will combine the GPS data and AIS data and output it as one combined NMEA data stream.
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Old 24-04-2014, 19:13   #15
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Re: Raymarine E80 classic and NEMA 0183 issues

Only advice I would have is to not spend a lot of money on old equipment trying to get it to work together. You are not likely to be happy with the way it all works together anyway. As muttnik said above you are trying to get RS232 and 422 to play nice together. You may spend several hundred dollars and end up with a flaky set up. Besides Milltech clearly says on their website to choose a different AIS if you have a chartplotter like Raymarine.

Sometimes it is cheaper to sell your old stuff on eBay and buy new.
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