Raymarine autohelm type 1 hydraulic pump/drive repair

[deblen]

Originally Posted by daveNZ

No I haven't considered other motors. I assume the speed (and torque) is important, to drive the pump at approx. the same speed. The drive shaft goes through a lip seal so motor to pump connection might be non-trivial and therefore expensive. I think a new motor would be a better bet.
But, I'll be regluing my magnets, the polarity is radial, a broken magnet is not two magnets in terms of North-South twice in the length of the previous one magnet. It is all one pole at the inner face and other pole on the outer face, so I reckon it will work fine. (It 'was' running with the broken magnets).

Glue....I've spoke to two magnet suppliers, each recommended different Loctite products.
I was going to use a 5min araldite. I then bought the 401, then later heard of the 324. Any thoughts?
Loctite 401 seems like superglue to me. Will it stand up to vibration?
Loctite 324 strength of an epoxy but quick setting.


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No experience here,but suggest you check temperature rating of whatever "glue". Motor will get quite warm-no idea what temp though.

Another source of DC motors is water pumps such as Surflo,Jabsco,etc.

Good luck/ Len

[DeepFrz]

Loctite® 324™ Speedbonder™ Structural Adhesive is a high impact, toughened, two step acrylic, no mixing required, amber, multi-surface structural adhesive. Loctite 324 is solvent resistant and, when used in conjunction with Loctite Primer 7075™, is ideal for large gap applications. Loctite 324 offers the strength of an epoxy and the speed of an instant, fixturing in 5 minutes.

The 324 seems to be a better choice here as the motor will be feeling some impact from reversing. Using the primer might also be a good idea. Whatever you do good luck and let us know how things work out.

[daveNZ]

agree Loctite 324 seems better. Currently stripping and repainting. 401 looks like a superglue, which I think need very closely mating surfaces. I'd like a little bit of gap filling, and some maybe smallest amount of flexibility to absorb the vibrations. Will report back!

[daveNZ]

Motor is now fixed, well motor has tested ok on its own. Cleaned, sanded with course wet and dry sandpaper, cleaned with MEK, glued with 5-minute Araldite. Runs like a dream.

Will post photos later as have taken it apart again for painting, I'm also cleaning up the pump. You need to be 'very' careful to somehow mark magnets as they come out so as to ensure they go back in the correct orientation, i.e. it would be easy to place the second magnet back to front; I'm sure the motor would not run well, if at all? Luckily I had taken photos and could tell by size of the broken pieces, and also one of the four pieces had remained glued in place.

Interestingly, the motor drew 8 amps with broken magnets, about 1 or 2 amps now!

Raymarine type 1,2,3 hydraulic pumps are made by Hypromarine.com (maybe owned by HyPro.co.uk?) motors now have ball bearings and look better sealed.


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[deblen]

Originally Posted by daveNZ

Motor is now fixed, well motor has tested ok on its own. Cleaned, sanded with course wet and dry sandpaper, cleaned with MEK, glued with 5-minute Araldite. Runs like a dream.

Will post photos later as have taken it apart again for painting, I'm also cleaning up the pump. You need to be 'very' careful to somehow mark magnets as they come out so as to ensure they go back in the correct orientation, i.e. it would be easy to place the second magnet back to front; I'm sure the motor would not run well, if at all? Luckily I had taken photos and could tell by size of the broken pieces, and also one of the four pieces had remained glued in place.

Interestingly, the motor drew 8 amps with broken magnets, about 1 or 2 amps now!

Raymarine type 1,2,3 hydraulic pumps are made by Hypromarine.com (maybe owned by HyPro.co.uk?) motors now have ball bearings and look better sealed.


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Congrats-you are self-sufficient!!
/ Len

[DeepFrz]

Super and thanks for posting this thread. I have learned a lot and I'm hopeful it will help others in the future. Looking forward to seeing the final pictures.

[daveNZ]

all finished and reinstalled. yet to bleed and test.

[DeepFrz]

Nice job. Good luck on the testing.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by daveNZ

all finished and reinstalled. yet to bleed and test.

Nice work!!
Here is a link in case.

autopilot in Boat Parts | eBay

Cheers / Len

[daveNZ]

Thanks for the link and comments. (I have more photos of anyone wants to see more detail)
Haven't finished bleeding yet; found that doing the full lock pressurising of the relief valves released dirty oil back up the helm filling tube. i.e. when you turn the helm back and hear the pressure release, dirty oil appears in the tube. I assume this is accumulated gunk from lack of regular testing of these valves. Maybe I should service these and change seals or something?? Better research!
Anyway have decided I need more oil and longer bleeding tube and I'll flush and change all the oil. Autohelm pump testing delayed again.


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[deblen]

Originally Posted by daveNZ

Thanks for the link and comments. (I have more photos of anyone wants to see more detail)
Haven't finished bleeding yet; found that doing the full lock pressurising of the relief valves released dirty oil back up the helm filling tube. i.e. when you turn the helm back and hear the pressure release, dirty oil appears in the tube. I assume this is accumulated gunk from lack of regular testing of these valves. Maybe I should service these and change seals or something?? Better research!
Anyway have decided I need more oil and longer bleeding tube and I'll flush and change all the oil. Autohelm pump testing delayed again.


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Dirty oil? discoloured maybe? Was the original oil automotive transmission fluid(red) or clear hydraulic oil?
What brand helm pump? Brand/model helm? If Teleflex/Capilano balanced ram,I usually could clear air by just running electric pumpset port & stbd hard over a few times. / Len

[belizesailor]

Definitely flush well and fill with the correct fluid. Check with helm pump/ram manufacturer for fluid specs.

What's the condition of your steering rams? Dirty fluid might indicate some issues there too.

I would run for a while and check fluid condition again.

[daveNZ]

Steering is SeaStar (small helm and ram) all look in very good condition externally.
All bled and appears to be ok. Previous oil must have been ATF, and, yes, the dirty appearance will have been the ATF coming up to my reservoir of nice clear 'SeaStar' hydraulic oil. I tried to bleed enough to replace all the oil. (nearly 2 litres) Pushed the ram out each side 'then' opened the nearest bleed fitting. Annoyingly some ATF will have remained and so the oil at the helm is not perfectly clear.
I filtered the old oil and after 12 years found only a tiny amount of fibres and very fine particles. Would anyone dare use it in a gearbox?? I guess it is useful at least as an emergency supply. All good but yet to sea test.

[belizesailor]

I would never reuse hydro fluid except in an emergency (I mean really an emergency).

Given that the system is old and a bit dirty, I suggest flushing it once and then refilling.

Check the specs on your rams & helm...some use ATF, some hydro fluid and in some cases it does matter because of materials compatability. Sure would suck to do all this just to have the wrong fluid eat your seals.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by daveNZ

Steering is SeaStar (small helm and ram) all look in very good condition externally.
All bled and appears to be ok. Previous oil must have been ATF, and, yes, the dirty appearance will have been the ATF coming up to my reservoir of nice clear 'SeaStar' hydraulic oil. I tried to bleed enough to replace all the oil. (nearly 2 litres) Pushed the ram out each side 'then' opened the nearest bleed fitting. Annoyingly some ATF will have remained and so the oil at the helm is not perfectly clear.
I filtered the old oil and after 12 years found only a tiny amount of fibres and very fine particles. Would anyone dare use it in a gearbox?? I guess it is useful at least as an emergency supply. All good but yet to sea test.

SeaStar Solutions

Your system uses ordinary hydraulic oil. The discoloration is from ATF,which will work fine in your system also.Many yrs ago,ATF was used in some systems-think it was seal rubber compatability.
You have done what you can to drain & refill with new oil & you found negligible dirt. You will be fine.
As belize said,don't reuse the old oil in any machine-not worth it. Put some in an oil can for external joints,etc if you must.
Be cautious of getting dirt, tef. tape,etc. when re-assy. Use Teflon pipe dope,rather than tape. Tape has a habit of shredding & getting into system,if not applied correctly.
Sounds like your ready to go. Try my suggestion of cycling piston hard to hard with pumpset to clear air. Usually works.
Center fitting on pumpset is plumbed to bottom hole on helm? right?
Just add oil to helm after each cycle of ram ,to avoid pumping more air into system-keep helm nearly full to prevent this.
/ Len