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Old 03-12-2014, 21:00   #1
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Raymarine AIS installation

I have a Raymarine C-80 chartplotter. I currently also have the Raymarine AIS350 receiver only system. I have just purchased the Raymarine AIS650 as I want to transmit my position information as well. My question is can I utilize my existing GPS antenna for the chartplotter with the AIS650 or do I need to install a separate GPS antenna? I have posted this question to Raymarine and have gotten two different answers. Yes you can use the existing and No you can't and have to install the new one as well. Neither answers seem to be detailed enough to make sense to me. One of the reasons I stuck with the Raymarine AIS unit was the belief that it should be able to talk to the Raymarine GPS that is already onboard. Any help or insights is greatly appreciated.

All my best,

s_v Solstice
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Old 03-12-2014, 21:12   #2
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Re: Raymarine AIS installation

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Originally Posted by s_v Solstice View Post
I have a Raymarine C-80 chartplotter. I currently also have the Raymarine AIS350 receiver only system. I have just purchased the Raymarine AIS650 as I want to transmit my position information as well. My question is can I utilize my existing GPS antenna for the chartplotter with the AIS650 or do I need to install a separate GPS antenna? I have posted this question to Raymarine and have gotten two different answers. Yes you can use the existing and No you can't and have to install the new one as well. Neither answers seem to be detailed enough to make sense to me. One of the reasons I stuck with the Raymarine AIS unit was the belief that it should be able to talk to the Raymarine GPS that is already onboard. Any help or insights is greatly appreciated.

All my best,

s_v Solstice
The AIS350/650 manual says you SHOULD NOT use the GPS data from the AIS650 for other purposes, it is intended for sole use by the AIS. Whilst it is possible to configure GPS data out to NMEA, that facility is for diagnostic use only.
So you should have a separate GPS for your other equipment Plotter, VHF radio etc and use the GPS supplied with the AIS650 for its own use.

It is handy to know you COULD use the AIS650 GPS data via NMEA in emergency if your main GPS fails.
Ray
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Old 03-12-2014, 23:09   #3
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Re: Raymarine AIS installation

the ais needs it's own. it's part of the rules for certifying and selling ais.


mount it under the deck somewhere. the new ones work just about anywhere. but you can see the gps signal in the ais software
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Old 04-12-2014, 06:27   #4
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Re: Raymarine AIS installation

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The AIS350/650 manual says you SHOULD NOT use the GPS data from the AIS650 for other purposes, it is intended for sole use by the AIS. ....
That is truly a lame. What do they think the data bits are going to get worn out if used by more than one source?
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Old 04-12-2014, 08:35   #5
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Re: Raymarine AIS installation

You need to use the GPS antenna that came with the AIS650.
There are several technical reasons why you do not want to share
the existing GPS antenna.
Jack
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Old 04-12-2014, 10:03   #6
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Re: Raymarine AIS installation

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Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
That is truly a lame. What do they think the data bits are going to get worn out if used by more than one source?
Class B AIS transponders must have a dedicated GPS and can't share one with another unit. And they cannot use NMEA-0183 data from another GPS. This is a type approval certification requirement.
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Old 04-12-2014, 10:07   #7
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Re: Raymarine AIS installation

You also need to ensure that the AIS650 has the latest firmware installed - mine was a version short, and it had an issue that caused serious issues with my e95 chartplotter! What it was doing was putting GPS info onto the SeatalkNG buss and confusing the chartplotter (wouldn't see heading info from the AP, etc...).
Installing the latest rev of firmware for the AIS650 solved the problem.

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Old 04-12-2014, 10:09   #8
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Re: Raymarine AIS installation

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Class B AIS transponders must have a dedicated GPS and can't share one with another unit. And they cannot use NMEA-0183 data from another GPS. This is a type approval certification requirement.
The way I read it, Raymarine discourages the sharing of the AIS650 dedicated AIS GPS data with other instruments.

I think that was what Paul found lame, and I agree. It doesn't make any sense at all.

Is there even a class B AIS make out there that accepts external GPS data? I'm pretty sure our Vesper does not. It does share its GPS data, however, and its GPS can be used for navigation.

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Old 04-12-2014, 16:21   #9
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Re: Raymarine AIS installation

I wouldn't see a problem with sharing the ais data if it outputs gps. but either way he still needs to install the new ais gps antenna. he can not share the one he currently has. after which point, it would be eaiser to just leave the current gps feeding the plotter, rather then rewireing the system to feed gps data from the ais to the plotter. unless you only have one spot on the whole boat to mount an antenna..
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Old 04-12-2014, 17:01   #10
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Re: Raymarine AIS installation

You might be able to mount the AIS in a spot where it does not need an external aerial. I did this with my GME AIS.
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Old 04-12-2014, 17:24   #11
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Re: Raymarine AIS installation

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The way I read it, Raymarine discourages the sharing of the AIS650 dedicated AIS GPS data with other instruments.

I think that was what Paul found lame, and I agree. It doesn't make any sense at all.

Is there even a class B AIS make out there that accepts external GPS data? I'm pretty sure our Vesper does not. It does share its GPS data, however, and its GPS can be used for navigation.

Mark
I think that is more a design and robustnes idea, not to rely on external POS source. AIS transciver has to be self dependent system.
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Old 05-12-2014, 08:21   #12
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Re: Raymarine AIS installation

The original question was about GPS input to the AIS which I believe has been answered.

Regarding GPS *output*...Given that many non-Raymarine AIS transceivers can be set up to output GPS would it be fair to say that disallowing this is Raymarine's interpretation of the regulations?

I don't know what board the AIS 650 uses but I have the older AIS 500 which uses an SRT board. proAIS software can normally be used to turn GPS output on/off. The AIS 500 manual makes reference to configuring GPS output but the proAIS Raymarine ship is borked to have that bit greyed out. When I asked Raymarine about it, they said the manual was in error and GPS output was disabled to comply with the directive to have "dedicated" GPS.

For getting GPS data out of the AIS 500 (but see above: I don't know what's in the 650!) I found this very helpful, which I believe is Kees Verruijt (of Canbus fame)'s blog:
Yacht Electronics: SRT proprietary AIS commands

Note that this talks about the SRT board sending out RMC and GBS by default and:
$PSRT,GPSDATA,,,1*60
enabling VTG, GGA, GSV, GLL and ZDA

The AIS 500 doesn't seem to put out RMC and GBS by default, but these are enabled with the others.

I used kplex on a mac to send the authorisation string and command to turn on GPS output (and then turn it off again) but a well thought out combination of stty and cat should also work. I'm sure windows users have their own ways of writing down a serial line.
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:38   #13
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Re: Raymarine AIS installation

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Originally Posted by muttnik View Post
.....
Regarding GPS *output*...Given that many non-Raymarine AIS transceivers can be set up to output GPS would it be fair to say that disallowing this is Raymarine's interpretation of the regulations?
.....
More likely that it is Raymarines continual gasping at staying proprietary in a standards world. They are the king of no backward-compatibility, we adhere to the standards except we use different connectors, lets do all we can including silly documentation restrictions to lock our customers into Ray products..
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Old 06-12-2014, 21:47   #14
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Re: Raymarine AIS installation

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More likely that it is Raymarines continual gasping at staying proprietary in a standards world. They are the king of no backward-compatibility, we adhere to the standards except we use different connectors, lets do all we can including silly documentation restrictions to lock our customers into Ray products..

Raymarine is extremely good at backward compatibility, I have original Seatalk 1 interfaced with Seatalk NG (NMEA2000) and visa versa. Fifteen year old equipment using data from two year old equipment, etc etc.


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Old 07-12-2014, 05:22   #15
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Re: Raymarine AIS installation

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Raymarine is extremely good at backward compatibility, I have original Seatalk 1 interfaced with Seatalk NG (NMEA2000) and visa versa. Fifteen year old equipment using data from two year old equipment, etc etc.


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Not in my experience. Each time you change out an autopilot computer (that didn't last but a few years, again) you have to change out the display for it, because it is slightly not compatible. You want backward compatibility for all the various Seatalk proprietary networks, sure, then you keep purchasing yet another conversion box.
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