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Old 06-11-2011, 11:56   #106
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Re: Radar or Not ?

does radar show deadheads and under the surface obstacles to navigation??// how would having radar help keep these items from bothering the integrity of one's hull??
seems that sonar is the tool more needed for this unless you watch closely, expecting them.......
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Old 06-11-2011, 12:06   #107
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pirate Re: Radar or Not ?

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Nearly. On the Galapagos - Azores route.
b.
East or West bound....
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Old 06-11-2011, 12:39   #108
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Re: Radar or Not ?

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does radar show deadheads and under the surface obstacles to navigation??
Ahead scanning sonar does nothing to help you detect another vessel in dense fog; and radar does nothing to help you detect waterlogged wrecks or other hazards. It is comparing screw drivers to spanners. Each has its own forte and its own place in the tool box. Where I am, with days of severe fog, commerical fishing boats, and plentiful deadheads to avoid a good radar and ahead scanning sonar are a good investment and compliment one another.
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Old 06-11-2011, 13:17   #109
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Re: Radar or Not ?

monte-

Does the $3500 just include the scanner, mount and installation (i.e. the display is already installed)? If so, it does seem a bit high, but it is unlikely you are going to do dramatically better later if you take delivery with the mast up. It is an expensive, time-consuming PITA to unstep the mast and run the radar cable inside later. It is much easier to do when running the other wires during manufacturing. Same for snaking the cable through the interior. If you are considering using a tower or arch on the transom then it might be worth waiting.

I mounted my radar on a pole on the transom, so it is useful even with the mast unstepped for canal transits (and I have found it very useful in such cases). I also had built a manual leveling system for the pole; I wouldn't do that again but it was informative.

Leveling radar does improve the performance for a boat under sail. When heeling well most of the signal on the lee side shoots down into the water (and consequently has a higher sea clutter) while on the weather side most of the signal shoots up in the air with little return at all. Target returns on the lee side tend to get lost in the clutter while targets on the weather side are weak. At the basic hardware level there is no escaping this but to level the scanner. However, modern radars do a great job of processing the data so that clutter and targets appear the same in all directions. It is quite easy to show by leveling or tilting the radar that there is more/better information present when the radar is level, but not hugely so. The loss of data from tilting is comparable to not having the gain/sea clutter set just right. The downside is that the design is a bit tricky and there have been levelers that haven't worked too well. And all suffer from the flexing of the radar cable at the swivel; with the old cables filled with tiny wires this resulted in failures of the wires due to fatigue. The newer cables that are power plus ethernet should be a bit more durable.
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Old 06-11-2011, 13:46   #110
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Re: Radar or Not ?

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Originally Posted by stevensuf View Post
I'm slowly fitting out my new to me boat, I am trying to keep the budget as low as i can reasonably get away with. I have installed a vhf with ais and linked it to the plotter, I am wondering if it is worth the extra 1000 pounds to add radar?

Not "needed". It's just one of many navigation tools.

Just high up on the "Nice to have list" (and very nice to have 5% (?) of the time - but can never tell you WTF is out there with 100% accuracy. Despite what the brochure may suggest).

On a budget, I like the suggestion of a pre-install on the mounting - and then keep an eye out for a s/h deal (tried to give away a radar many years ago (pre E-bay).......it ended up in a skip ....to be fair, the dome was sized about right for a Destroyer ).
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Old 06-11-2011, 13:48   #111
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Re: Radar or Not ?

I've found the radar pretty good for spotting thunderclouds in the dark which has enabled us to naviagate around them on more thena few occassions
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Old 06-11-2011, 13:53   #112
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Re: Radar or Not ?

second hand is awesome!!!! like a fleamarket sans fleas, with luck!!!!

there was a jrc radar unit a few years ago brand new for 1200 usd---can something like that be found where you are???/
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Old 07-11-2011, 03:02   #113
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Re: Radar or Not ?

Does the $3500 just include the scanner, mount and installation (i.e. the display is already installed)? If so, it does seem a bit high

I have very recently installed a Raymarine RD418HD on my yacht in round numbers AUD
2500.00 Scanner
300.00 Mount
700.00 cable
300.00 HS switch to interface to display
Plus fitting still awaiting the final bil for that.


so 3500.00 installed sounds like an good way to go to me.
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Old 07-11-2011, 03:30   #114
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Re: Radar or Not ?

yes its about $3400 installed. I guess Ill tick that box now. Thanks fro the details Paul.
While Im on it...how about AIS, I figure I may as well add that too...is the factory option of AIS 650 RAYMARINE TRANSCEIVER WITH ANTENNA COUPLING for $1300 fitted resonable,,the best option? I do want a tranceiver, otherwise Id just use my iphone for a reciever.
Thanks again
Rob
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Old 07-11-2011, 03:57   #115
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Re: Radar or Not ?

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I think the point was that rain doesn't necessarily negate radar to only fog...up to pretty heavy rain can be tuned out pretty easily to still pick up important targets
Good point but by important you mean large targets(my asumption) but the less important targets can ruin your day and i think the combination of ais and radar is a great way to go. As a yachty i cant run my radar all the time because of the power consumption but advances will improve all these things....I would personally have ais over radar as it keeps an eye on the big steel things out there where as the smaller boats make any contact fairly survivable.
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Old 07-11-2011, 04:30   #116
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Re: Radar or Not ?

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Good point but by important you mean large targets(my asumption) but the less important targets can ruin your day and i think the combination of ais and radar is a great way to go. As a yachty i cant run my radar all the time because of the power consumption but advances will improve all these things....I would personally have ais over radar as it keeps an eye on the big steel things out there where as the smaller boats make any contact fairly survivable.
Depends on the power of the radar...and the intensity of the rain...each situation is different but rain doesn't necessarily negate small targets ...especially if they have significant metal on/in them.

I guess I was always able to figure out where the big steel things were goining/coming... so staying away from where they traveled was easy...but navigating shorelines and missing buoys and rockpiles is nice too...even though GPS does that to a degree...it's sure nice to have the RADAR back it up with instant info and heading (GPS not so instant when turning) and to know someone didn't spud down a barge or other object in my path.
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:49   #117
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Re: Radar or Not ?

monte- If you are interested in DIY then you should be able to install AIS for less. The Raymarine unit is certainly not the price leader in Class B transceivers, and there is little or no advantage over using another brand like West Marine. Most of the installation is simply mounting the unit and intercepting the VHF antenna cable (assuming an active splitter is included). The only potential hassle is installing the GPS antenna (Class B T/R are required to have their own dedicated GPS). Some units actually have the GPS mounted internally, which is less desirable but easier to install. Personally I would opt for a dedicated AIS antenna - not a splitter, preferably mounted somewhere other than the masthead, and an AIS with a remote GPS. More work but better results, with the antenna usable as a VHF backup. Also, getting an AIS without the splitter should knock some off the price.
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:19   #118
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Re: Radar or Not ?

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No, but I've avoided being run down in very heavy rain squalls, twice.

By how close? I mean, you probably moved out of the way in plenty of time, so how do you know you wouldn't have seen the other boat, and/or vice versa, in time? I know a lot of good sailors and very few of them have radar, and none of them are colliding with each other.

I can see it giving someone extra confidence, but dang it's expensive. There's a lot else you could do with that money.
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:21   #119
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Re: Radar or Not ?

A small radar uses only 8 Watts (in watch mode).

The best class B transceiver I used had it all integrated, and a color screen, separate VHF antenna and its own GPS puck too.

The radar / AIS, I would not mix the things up. It is not either / or choice. Buy both, if so dictated by your condition. Sure thing on the budget AIS is cheaper, but often it is not good enough.

b.
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:27   #120
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Re: Radar or Not ?

barnakiel-

I suppose you are referring to the Simrad AIS? That is what I bought, at a (brief) time between radars for the last Atlantic trip. I do like having the ability to run AIS separately, with the radar/chartplotter powered down, although at this point I think it is better to practice with all of the gear operational; there is no denying that all of these goodies require some practice in order to master them.
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