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Old 28-04-2016, 06:44   #31
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Re: Radar location on cutter

Mike, not to confuse the issue more, which of course I will now do, but we bought one of the newer digital radars and the instructions indicated that it should not be on the mast but much closer to sea level. Ours is on a post at the stern about 8' above deck level. Seems to work fine and emissions are quite low.
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Old 28-04-2016, 08:02   #32
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Re: Radar location on cutter

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Originally Posted by AiniA View Post
Mike, not to confuse the issue more, which of course I will now do, but we bought one of the newer digital radars and the instructions indicated that it should not be on the mast but much closer to sea level. Ours is on a post at the stern about 8' above deck level. Seems to work fine and emissions are quite low.
Thanks .

Mine is a Garmin HD, which as I understand the technology, is not "digital" but refined old-school. But I researched all this two years ago, so may have forgotten what I thought I knew.

If I didn't already have a windmill on my stern I would happily go for a stern pole mount. It would be a lot easier to install and wire. Unfortunately up the mast is the only place I can go.
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Old 28-04-2016, 10:20   #33
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Re: Radar location on cutter

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Have you actually done this, Cadence? I have, for many years, and it is simply a non-event... the sail just goes on by.

Other posters report similar experiences...

Jim
Yes I have Jim. A big Genny does not come around near as well as when not having to slide around the radar. Not that it snags just makes it slower changing your point of sail. I've never been a racer but think those that have would agree. My concern was the delay that might not be needed in a bad situation also it can't help on the sail itself. I just said a tiaga would be my choice given the new radars that won't fry your brain.
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Old 28-04-2016, 10:52   #34
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Re: Radar location on cutter

The small trick in mounting it lower is to check the leach position of the staysail when close hauled. You want the leach to be far enough away from the mast that it is not continually rubbing against the radar. The higher you go, while still under the inner forestay, the closer the leach will get to the mast. As long as you go low enough that the staysail leach stays off the radar you're fine.

I think for the most part the radar is large enough that if you can fit it between the mast and the stay you're probably far enough down for the leach to be clear, but worth checking before you drill a bunch of holes.
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Old 28-04-2016, 12:09   #35
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Re: Radar location on cutter

I much prefer having the radar off the mast entirely; and on a pole or arch at the stern. I've owned both, on several different rigs, different boats.

Reasons:

- Mass is lower (a good thing, but negligible these days)
- running cables is easier/closer to helm (where the radar should be visible... don't get me started on radars hidden below at nav stations. A radar is situational awareness device... where do you need this awareness...?)
- servicing is easier (got a problem? no need to get the bosuns chair out and be really uncomfortable... use a step ladder).
- makes removing & storing the stick much less hassle (significant for those who must haul every year).
- less likely to foul a line or a sail (although this is indeed rare, but when it does, it's guaranteed to happen when it is least helpful)
- less of an 'aft shadow' created by being immediately in front of a giant radar reflector (for aluminum masts)
- fewer holes in the compression column that is your spar, fewer places for corrosion to start (usually starts around stainless fasteners)
- stern pole or arch is a great place to mount other stuff, like AIS antenna, gps antenna, dinghy motor hoists, work lights, etc..

ymmv... but I won't mount another radar 'up there' ever again if I don't have to.

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Old 28-04-2016, 12:16   #36
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Re: Radar location on cutter

On my boat, the track for the self-tracking staysail is inches in front of the mast. If you zoom in on the picture you can see the sheet for the staysail runs from the clew through a block on the track at the mast base then upwards right up the mast to a bail/block above the steaming and deck lights where it enters the mast and is routed back into the cockpit. Were I to mount the radar necessarily above all that rig, the leach of the staysail would likely slap the radar. Consequently, the radar is mounted on a platform between the two tails of the split backstay. That might be an option for you if you have a split backstay, and there are gimballed platforms as well. Radar performance is fine and does not seem to be obstructed by the mast.
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Old 28-04-2016, 12:42   #37
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Re: Radar location on cutter

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Thanks .

Mine is a Garmin HD, which as I understand the technology, is not "digital" but refined old-school. But I researched all this two years ago, so may have forgotten what I thought I knew.
.

Last boat I had a Garmin 18HD and a 740S, In my opinion, it's an excellent, easy to use Radar, on par with my 4G.
Old school or not, it works very well.
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Old 28-04-2016, 13:28   #38
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Re: Radar location on cutter

Quote:
Originally Posted by NSboatman View Post
I much prefer having the radar off the mast entirely; and on a pole or arch at the stern. I've owned both, on several different rigs, different boats.

Reasons:

- Mass is lower (a good thing, but negligible these days)
- running cables is easier/closer to helm (where the radar should be visible... don't get me started on radars hidden below at nav stations. A radar is situational awareness device... where do you need this awareness...?)
- servicing is easier (got a problem? no need to get the bosuns chair out and be really uncomfortable... use a step ladder).
- makes removing & storing the stick much less hassle (significant for those who must haul every year).
- less likely to foul a line or a sail (although this is indeed rare, but when it does, it's guaranteed to happen when it is least helpful)
- less of an 'aft shadow' created by being immediately in front of a giant radar reflector (for aluminum masts)
- fewer holes in the compression column that is your spar, fewer places for corrosion to start (usually starts around stainless fasteners)
- stern pole or arch is a great place to mount other stuff, like AIS antenna, gps antenna, dinghy motor hoists, work lights, etc..

ymmv... but I won't mount another radar 'up there' ever again if I don't have to.

bg
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Old 28-04-2016, 17:17   #39
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Re: Radar location on cutter

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Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
Yes I have Jim. A big Genny does not come around near as well as when not having to slide around the radar. Not that it snags just makes it slower changing your point of sail. I've never been a racer but think those that have would agree. My concern was the delay that might not be needed in a bad situation also it can't help on the sail itself. I just said a tiaga would be my choice given the new radars that won't fry your brain.
OK, Cadence, I guess we will have to say that our experiences are different. On our previous boat (old IOR racer) we had heavy and light 165% Genoas. The mast mounted radar didn't seem to impede tacking...

But do realize that Mike's Rafiki is a cutter with an inner forestay. That stay would trump any possible radar mount interference in terms of tacking a genoa. And because it is a cutter, he is not really likely to carry big overlap headsails in t he first place!

And for those who want him to mount the radar on a pole at the stern, remember that the Rafiki is a double ender, and there is not much real estate near the stern for mounting poles... way different than fat assed modern boats!

Anyway, that's my take on his question. YMMV.

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Old 28-04-2016, 17:26   #40
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Re: Radar location on cutter

Just not too close to the stay.

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Old 28-04-2016, 18:19   #41
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Re: Radar location on cutter

How does the staysail boom topping lift lead, I can see a potential issue with this fouling the radar?

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