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Old 02-02-2017, 08:13   #1
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Question on portable jump starter

Hi all,

In the process of getting my electrical generation and batteries up to the tasks that I am demanding from them I have a question that does not seem to have been addressed.

I (will) have 2 x 200ah batteries in the bank and I believe that this will be sufficient to (over)serve my requirements.

Rather than rewire them to the "One-Both-Two-Off" switch (is the proper term for this the "isolator/") where is seems that there is a high number of ways to make a mistake when using.

How about stashing a Jump Starter Power Pack in the battery space and using that for emergency starting should the need arise. I would need to remember to recharge it (monthly) but that seems like it might provide a good alternative to a dedicated isolated starting battery.

Any thoughts?

Also, does anybody have experience with Powerstar PS 200-12-9 Battery?

Thanks!
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Old 02-02-2017, 08:21   #2
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Re: Question on portable jump starter

Do you do t have a separate start battery?

Your house bank needs to be true deep cycle, where as the start battery should be dual purpose start/deep cycle.

Then your selector switch would be number one either house or starts and number to 2 house or start and then both be both your house bank and start battery.

Clear as mud?
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Old 02-02-2017, 08:22   #3
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Re: Question on portable jump starter

I also realized I didn't mention the portable jump starter. The portable jump starter would have an extremely hard time jumping your house bank to be able to start your battery. Where as if you had a separate start battery it could more easily charge one battery in the case it is low to be able to turn over your engine.
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Old 02-02-2017, 10:10   #4
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Re: Question on portable jump starter

I have this
My boat (Alberg 35) has the standard house/starter configuration with deep cycle for the house, starter for the engine. What I've learned is that if the starter battery won't get the engine (3gm40 Yanmar) going, DON'T add the emergency starter into the circuit. Instead, take the leads off the starter battery and directly connect to the emergency starter. That has saved me a time or two. Afterward, I disconnect the emergency starter. About once a month I connect the emergency starter system to the starter battery to let it charge.
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Old 02-02-2017, 10:18   #5
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Re: Question on portable jump starter

I bought a portable jump starter as a back up. I did some research and bought one that had good reviews, not the cheapest and not the most expensive. I found it would not start the engine in my V8 runabout if the battery was too low to turn the engine, unless it was charged shortly before using it. That may means starting a diesel it would be worse at yet.
So my caution is, you need to have it charged often, at least every week would be my guess.
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Old 03-02-2017, 08:13   #6
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Re: Question on portable jump starter

I have a small jump starter pack, I also use it to power my air pump to inflate my inflatable, one saved a friends boat at our last raft up. I have a small diesel, not sure how it would work on a large engine.
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Old 03-02-2017, 09:45   #7
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Re: Question on portable jump starter

My experience with portable jump starters:

- not very powerful so won't start a bigger engine, barely start a small one
- have to charge them often but they still don't seem to hold a charge long and the batteries in them never seem to last very long before they are dead and have to be replaced.

If you can do it and want to invest a little extra in time and money.

1. A house bank of true deep cycle batteries.
2. A separate starting battery that is truly isolated from the house batteries.
3. Unless you 100% perfect and NEVER forget to switch the 1-2-Both switch do NOT use this to isolate the house and starting batteries.

Why? All it takes is one time, getting in late, bad weather, seasick crew, hectic scene and you forget and leave the switch to Both when you shut down the engine. The next morning all your batteries are down and you can't start the engine. Been there, done that and been left way out in the boondocks without an engine.

The foolproof way is to run all charging to the house battery and connect the house battery to the start battery with an automatic device like the Echocharge or Yandina Combiner. These devices automatically connect the start battery to the charging anytime there is charging voltage to the house battery, whether alternator, solar, wind or whatever. Then when the charging source is off (like you shut down the engine or the sun goes down) the combiner automatically disconnects the start battery from the house bank so it is charged and protected. No remembering to switch, no mistakes. These charge connectors are extremely reliable and only cost $100-$150 or so, depending on the size.
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Old 03-02-2017, 11:18   #8
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Re: Question on portable jump starter

I have jumped myself when the refrigerator ran down my two 12 v group 27s. While they looked nice and new from the PO, they were not. This shows that a battery jumper is able to supplement the power to start a universal 25 diesel.
So I bought an 800Ah lithium jump starter recently as a backup. I have seen one start a car. I now have 4 golf cart batteries for 460Ah and a separate starter battery.
As an experiment I connected the newly charged lithium pack to the starter solenoid positive and the negative ground on the engine. No batteries were switched on. So under lithium alone it did turn over the engine, but not with speed enough to start it. Again remember though, a jumper supplements your down batteries, in this experiment they were not part of the equation. I would think the lithium would have done it as a supplement.
I also have a compression release lever as another ace in the hole, but never needed it. I have also seen that work when depleted batteries could spin an engine, then the valve released.
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Old 03-02-2017, 11:45   #9
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Re: Question on portable jump starter

99% of boat users have no problem with 1, 2 both battery switches. I have 2 banks for each main and have no problem with a standard battery switch. I only use both during starting. All batteries are the same age. Diodes added to the back of the switch allow charging without switching.
Portable jump starters only work well on small engines. They struggle starting gas v-8s. Diesel compression ratio is almost double current gas engines.
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Old 03-02-2017, 12:15   #10
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Re: Question on portable jump starter

I think there are many good reasons to have a battery switch. Even with a battery switch, I carried a jump starter and even had to use it on one occasion

I recently purchased one of the smaller units that jump starts but also recharges devices via USB ports. I jumped my car with it just a couple days ago. Great little device.
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Old 03-02-2017, 12:16   #11
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Re: Question on portable jump starter

The 'jump start' pack is just a spare battery.
A small spare battery with just enough power to get your engine started. I don't think it makes sense to replace a two battery system with a single battery bank and a small spare battery.
I suggest an asymmetric battery bank, such as a 90ah starting battery and a 200ah house bank.
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Old 03-02-2017, 12:24   #12
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Re: Question on portable jump starter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
99% of boat users have no problem with 1, 2 both battery switches. I have 2 banks for each main and have no problem with a standard battery switch. I only use both during starting. All batteries are the same age. Diodes added to the back of the switch allow charging without switching.
Portable jump starters only work well on small engines. They struggle starting gas v-8s. Diesel compression ratio is almost double current gas engines.
Don't know if I agree with your 99% statistic. I have personally encountered plenty of boaters over the years that ran down their batteries due to the Both switch. It's happened to me twice but agree for the majority of the boaters the majority of the time using a 1-2-Both switch to manage charging start and house banks will work. Diodes will work for isolation but you do lose 0.7V drop across the diode so will be charging the start bank at a lower voltage. Probably OK since you draw so little out of the start bank when cranking but you can do the same thing with an automatic combiner without the voltage drop.

If you cruise to remote areas, far from support and BoatUS towing, only have one start and house bank and, like me don't have a perfect memory, then the 1-2-Both switch isn't the best option. Sure most of the time it will be fine but it is so cheap and easy to go with an automatic combiner to make the process foolproof then why not go with a better solution. It only takes once to make you really appreciate it.
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Old 03-02-2017, 13:55   #13
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Re: Question on portable jump starter

I have a Stanley Power Station, Part No. STA-PPRH7DS.
Cost is approx $100.
It has 1400 peak amp output.
It cranks my V8 cars and Marine Perkins 4-108 with no issues at all.
It also has a built in inverter, so bringing 115v sound systems to any secluded beach to play Jimmy Buffet tunes all day is not an issue.
It also has a built in compressor for inflatable animals, car or trailer tires.
I bring it with me almost everywhere, but not in to Church.
It is amazing how many stranded road warriors, and sailors have been sent on their way with this one device.
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Old 03-02-2017, 20:32   #14
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Re: Question on portable jump starter

The engine start and house bank should be charged thru the START battery, not the house bank, via a combiner and have a 1-2 switch as a back up [nigel calder]
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Old 04-02-2017, 17:57   #15
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Re: Question on portable jump starter

I have no experience with a portable jump starter nor do I want/need the hassle of extra gear.

Wouldn't it be easier to follow an established routine: i.e. once engine has started, then put selector switch back to 'off', then untie lines?
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