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Old 16-05-2013, 06:30   #61
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post

This cant be a serious post. Use Radar in harbour !!.

Good radar is expensive, requires skill and experience to operate and interpret.

Dave
RYA radar instructor.
As a good captain you should have good RADAR skills.
AIS is useless in a harbor compared to RADAR.

I have pulled into Newport, RI many times in FOG and could not see my bow. Radar is the only device that helped me safely anchor within the other anchored and docked boats.
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Old 16-05-2013, 06:36   #62
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
To an non-AIS receiver user this is hilarious...
You guys spend years shouting for something that tells you when stuff is around...
Now your shouting because it does...
Last delivery had radar alarm and AIS... one ship hammered out of Oristano, Sardinia towards us with neither operating... till I called and asked his intentions as he was not conforming to Marine Safety standards.... yup.. I'm a snarky bustard...
and the shipping lanes of Tunisia had the owner freaking out with all the ship alarms charging back and forth as we tacked through the lanes..
You can please sum alla de time... and all summa de time...


It is handy though, though the noisy alarm tends to be switched off.

But having too much time i just had a look round the south coast and Solent on marine traffic, very few had any history to show, dunno how long that site keeps position data but most moored up looked like they hadn't moved recently - why bother? Other than show mates "here's my big boat" on an iphone down the pub. If they're so paranoid of it getting nicked then fit some sort of hidden tracker, ais won't cut it unless it's a really stupid thief.

Completely pointless, turn it off and don't look like you're a knob or haven't tidied up the boat before leaving.
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Old 16-05-2013, 06:41   #63
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

I always love how when a simple question is posted we get on tangents...

AIS is a simple tool that is an AID to NAVIGATION and SAFEFTY.

In what way do you benefit leaving you AIS on when the boat is tied to the dock?

Well maybe the poster who is hoping that if someone steals his boat he will watch it drive away on the Internet
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Old 16-05-2013, 06:49   #64
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
The less the big ship boys need to run a class B filter to remove all our yachts the better for all of us.
Sounds like the class B filter issue is more complex than I first thought as panbo and others have discussed, I need to talk to a few of my contacts in the shipping world to find out more about this, and how they deal with the issue in onboard.

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...to make sure we aren't clogging up the airwaves with thousands of stationary AIS units attached to boats in marinas and on moorings...
As is this one...

"Though the system provides 4500 time slots per minute. The SOTDMA broadcast mode allows the system to be overloaded by 400 to 500% through sharing of slots, and still provide nearly 100% throughput for ships closer than 8 to 10 NM to each other in a ship to ship mode. In the event of system overload, only targets further away will be subject to drop-out, in order to give preference to nearer targets that are a primary concern to ship operators. In practice, the capacity of the system is nearly unlimited, allowing for a great number of ships to be accommodated at the same time."

Sounds like the system is pretty robust, even with large amounts of stationary targets.
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Old 16-05-2013, 06:50   #65
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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Completely pointless, turn it off and don't look like you're a knob or haven't tidied up the boat before leaving.
Quote:
In what way do you benefit leaving you AIS on when the boat is tied to the dock?

Neither of these is the point. ( nor is the nob comment applicable)

The IMO does not require that AIS be turned off at any stage. No doubt a lesiure yacht when one shuts down ones nav gear when docked will undoubtably also shut down your AIS.

However, the issue is that I dont believe its good practice to separate AIS power from general nav power on the basis that I can turn that off separately. I would suggest that I would prefer to see AIS in harbours, then forgetful sailors with no AIS transponders on while at sea.

There for the issue isnt about the silly issue of impressing your friend 'Bob', but the serious issue of ensuring that AIS is used when it should be.

Turning of AIS in harbour is a bit like suggesting that you remove your lifejacket walking around teh local supermarket after coming ashore, Sure , but one worn all the time is better then forgetting to put it on, when you need it.

Dave
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Old 16-05-2013, 06:52   #66
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
As a good captain you should have good RADAR skills.
AIS is useless in a harbor compared to RADAR.

I have pulled into Newport, RI many times in FOG and could not see my bow. Radar is the only device that helped me safely anchor within the other anchored and docked boats.

I am impressed by your radar, I would contend that most boats radar, with 5 degree beam width is incapable of resolving any useful in close quarters that can be useful in a typical harbour.

IN my case I get so much sidelobe reflections, multipath issues and drown-out that most times its useless in close quarter work

Dave
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Old 16-05-2013, 07:01   #67
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Turning of AIS in harbour is a bit like suggesting that you remove your lifejacket walking around teh local supermarket after coming ashore, Sure , but one worn all the time is better then forgetting to put it on, when you need it.

Dave
Get outta here - you seriously think someone back on the boat is going to forget turning on a transponder when firing up the gps & depth etc? Anyone with half a brain who has ais onboard will notice straight away the lack of targets, very weak argument for leaving the boats nav system fired up when leaving it. So everyone should leave depthsounders & gps fired up all the time in case they forget to turn them on next time they get down the boat? Sorry, but that's barking mate
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Old 16-05-2013, 07:03   #68
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
IN my case I get so much sidelobe reflections, multipath issues and drown-out that most times its useless in close quarter work

Dave
Ah, you don't have a 4G radar yet
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Old 16-05-2013, 07:06   #69
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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I love this about CF. Famed cruiser Evans Starzinger starts a thread about a legitimate topic he experienced while actually cruising and five posts later an average joe schools him on how to be a real seaman.

Frank
That was precisely why I made the comment I did about the futility of his quest. The commonality is ignorance and self-righteousness, the enemy of prudent seamanship and the fellowship of salt.
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Old 16-05-2013, 07:09   #70
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

Quote:
Get outta here - you seriously think someone back on the boat is going to forget turning on a transponder when firing up the gps & depth etc? Anyone with half a brain who has ais onboard will notice straight away the lack of targets, very weak argument for leaving the boats nav system fired up when leaving it. So everyone should leave depthsounders & gps fired up all the time in case they forget to turn them on next time they get down the boat? Sorry, but that's barking mate
Not everyone has fully integrated chartplotters/AIS solutions. nor does everyone even have an AIS target to see as they leave the marina ( I don't at times).

All I am saying is that there is no particular reason to specifically turn off AIS in harbour, if you leave it on, so what. Evans issue is a display filter issue and shouldnt be solved by suggesting that we all turn off AIS.


In commercial boats including some non compulsory fit class B commercial vessels, electronics tend to left on continuously ( a bit of a throwback to the valve days when typically the valve heaters failed on switch on) compulsory fit class A vessels ALWAY leave them on in my experience.

So its not an issue if YOU want to leave them on. its up to you. The issue about too many targets is NOT a transmitter issue , its a receiver one.


dave
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Old 16-05-2013, 07:35   #71
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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Originally Posted by jeremiason View Post
........... In what way do you benefit leaving you AIS on when the boat is tied to the dock? ..................
If you have friends who may be tracking your progress, they will be able to see where you are using their PCs and marinetraffic.com or other AIS tracking sites. Or, if you are away from your boat, it can be a security thing. If it is stolen, you can notify the police of it's location.

Most important though, if you don't want to leave it on, you have the freedom of turning it off. If you want to leave it on, you have that same freedom. It's a personal choice and there's no right or wrong here. There's no reason to insult someone who makes a different choice than your choice.
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Old 16-05-2013, 07:47   #72
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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If you have friends who may be tracking your progress, they will be able to see where you are using their PCs and marinetraffic.com or other AIS tracking sites. Or, if you are away from your boat, it can be a security thing. If it is stolen, you can notify the police of it's location.

Most important though, if you don't want to leave it on, you have the freedom of turning it off. If you want to leave it on, you have that same freedom. It's a personal choice and there's no right or wrong here. There's no reason to insult someone who makes a different choice than your choice.
Agreed.
Unfortunately there are many humans who have a sense of being smarter, more entitled, or just plain better than others and seem to adopt a "hey you, get out of my way" attitude toward anyone who doesn't do as they do.
So there is my daily "humans are mean and stupid" rant. Thanks.
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Old 16-05-2013, 07:49   #73
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
In commercial boats including some non compulsory fit class B commercial vessels, electronics tend to left on continuously ( a bit of a throwback to the valve days when typically the valve heaters failed on switch on) compulsory fit class A vessels ALWAY leave them on in my experience.

dave
The commercial boats I drove or crewed on in San Francisco all had company policies that the AIS Class A was to be turned off once at the dock and secured for the day.

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Most important though, if you don't want to leave it on, you have the freedom of turning it off. If you want to leave it on, you have that same freedom. It's a personal choice and there's no right or wrong here. There's no reason to insult someone who makes a different choice than your choice.
Not trying to be insulting, just realistic. First the incidence of theft of large recreational boats is incredibly low in the US. Second, if someone decided to steal you large recreational vessel, they probably have enough experience to at least turn the power off on the AIS.
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Old 16-05-2013, 08:10   #74
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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Originally Posted by jeremiason View Post
The commercial boats I drove or crewed on in San Francisco all had company policies that the AIS Class A was to be turned off once at the dock and secured for the day.



Not trying to be insulting, just realistic. First the incidence of theft of large recreational boats is incredibly low in the US. Second, if someone decided to steal you large recreational vessel, they probably have enough experience to at least turn the power off on the AIS.
Hmmm...

IIRC, within the past couple of months a large (82 foot) Oyster was indeed stolen in the SF Bay area by some dim-witted thieves. The AIS was linked to general or nav station power and thus was energized. The owner and the authorities were able to track the boat until the idiot thieves ran her up on the beach south of the Gate.

Not a common thing though!

Cheers,

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Old 16-05-2013, 08:36   #75
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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Originally Posted by jeremiason View Post
................. Not trying to be insulting, just realistic. First the incidence of theft of large recreational boats is incredibly low in the US. Second, if someone decided to steal you large recreational vessel, they probably have enough experience to at least turn the power off on the AIS.
I remember around my area a few years ago a couple young guys got drunk and stole a fairly large sailboat and took it on a joyride.

Regardless, unlike say, the use of anchor lights, there's no right or wrong way here and no rules to follow or ignore. A person is not a better boater than someone else because he or she turns the AIS off or leaves it on.

Quote:
The commercial boats I drove or crewed on in San Francisco all had company policies that the AIS Class A was to be turned off once at the dock and secured for the day.
"Company policy" means nothing to the rest of us.
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