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Old 16-05-2013, 02:32   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post


In any event, my take on good seamanship is that you are able and willing to deal with the world as it is rather than needing others to change.
Fair point in general, but in this case there's no mention of a need, just a simple request with please in the title to think of others.

Very unlikely to have much effect by the looks of things.
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Old 16-05-2013, 03:15   #32
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
No, it's not.

That's the logic that leads people to try to "educate" other drivers out on I-5.

We call that "road rage".

Maybe this is "wave rage".

It's on the same emotional and logical level.
My idea of "educating" must be a little different to yours! I didn't have baseball bat and dodgy london accent in mind... More a few forums and magazine articles... My thoughts are that if we don't sort it out ourselves before to long the officials will start to make laws to make sure we aren't clogging up the airwaves with thousands of stationary AIS units attached to boats in marinas and on moorings.

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Originally Posted by Tomm0 View Post
If I'm on a mooring I'll turn it off.
When I'm at anchor, I don't want you running into me. I'll leave mine on thanks.
Fair call, I am with you there, this sounds like a responsible and fair use for AIS. It has the benefit that we can check our yachts position on the shiptracker while we are away.

I appreciate this thread, both Evans point, and the information on the filtering options that are available. I occasionally teach fisherman and the like for their commercial tickets, now I can pass this onto them as well. I can even amend some of our textbooks. Given AIS is not (yet) commonly used down here (except for the few big ships) this info is gold. Cheers
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Old 16-05-2013, 03:30   #33
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
Elliott Bay Seattle. At least 20 commercial vessels tagged as moored/anchored. It's not just the recreational boats. I think this isn't going to change.

Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions
Because any vessel that is required to fit AIS is required to show their status at all times......thatís whole point of the exercise.....

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Old 16-05-2013, 03:39   #34
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

I would offer an opinion that AIS shoudl be left on as much as possible, The actions needs to taken on the receiving end to filter out 'noise'. better have teh stuff switched on and txing then you forget to re-enable it.

AIS,- useless unless switched on.

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Old 16-05-2013, 03:58   #35
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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Originally Posted by IslandHopper View Post
Because any vessel that is required to fit AIS is required to show their status at all times......thatís whole point of the exercise.....

Not so, in your country anyway..

AIS Frequently Asked Questions

Quote:
When must AIS be in operation? Vessels equipped with AIS (either by mandatory carriage or voluntarily) must abide by the requirements set forth in Title 33, Code of Federal Regulations, ßß 164.46 and 161.20, and should especially ensure their AIS is in 'effective operating condition', which entails the continuous operation of AIS and the accurate input and upkeep of AIS data fields during all times that the vessel is navigating (underway or at anchor).
And anyway the OP was about class B. Already in the spec slow moving or anchored vessels transmit at much longer intervals than fast moving in order to make the most efficient use of the bandwidth available, why clutter up the bandwidth any more by leaving yours trasmitting when tied to the dock or a mooring buoy?
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Old 16-05-2013, 03:59   #36
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
.. My thoughts are that if we don't sort it out ourselves before to long the officials will start to make laws to make sure we aren't clogging up the airwaves with thousands of stationary AIS units attached to boats in marinas and on moorings.
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Old 16-05-2013, 04:24   #37
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

well its being extended to all EU fishing vessels too

" a new EU directive to take effect, where all fishing vessels over 15m need to carry AIS class A. The implementation will be as follows. From May 31, 2012 all vessels over 24m, in 2013 all vessels over 18m and finally in 2014 all vessels over 15m. "


furthermore

Quote:
.. My thoughts are that if we don't sort it out ourselves before to long the officials will start to make laws to make sure we aren't clogging up the airwaves with thousands of stationary AIS units attached to boats in marinas and on moorings.
Is not entirely accurate,

Firstly CLass B uses CSMA, so as the bandwidth is used, in effect stations simply never get through so in very high traffic areas the system is limited by the bandwidth available, ie many AIS class B systems will never actually get many messages out.

Further more under two knots , dyamic data is ( from memory) reduced to 2 minute time intervals and static data to 6 minute intervals.

So the thousands and thousands of contacts simply isnt going to happen.


What is likely to be mor eof a problem is that I think over time, most AIS will migrate to class A, that may require legislation to prevent non-mandatory fit vessels from fitting Class A.

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Old 16-05-2013, 04:35   #38
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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Originally Posted by conachair View Post
Not so, in your country anyway..

AIS Frequently Asked Questions



And anyway the OP was about class B. Already in the spec slow moving or anchored vessels transmit at much longer intervals than fast moving in order to make the most efficient use of the bandwidth available, why clutter up the bandwidth any more by leaving yours trasmitting when tied to the dock or a mooring buoy?
I have no idea why you say "your country" then post a link to the US Department of Homeland Security.....

But yes if a security incident is imminent we may have to turn the units off, even in "my country" . But seeing as i replied to cal40john's post as to why the commercial vessels are showing their status at anchor or moored i answered because they are required to at all times, i didnít read anywhere in his post stating there was a security incident so didnít feel the need to comment on it....

So just to make you happy.....

Imminent Security Incidents aside, any vessel that is required to fit AIS is required to show their status at all times......thatís whole point of the exercise.....

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Old 16-05-2013, 04:37   #39
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

As an aside, why would a 'Security Incident' require AIS to be turned off!.

Dave
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Old 16-05-2013, 04:48   #40
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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Originally Posted by IslandHopper View Post
I have no idea why you say "your country" then post a link to the US Department of Homeland Security.....
Sorry sorry sorry

this forums is so US based i didn't even look to check....

Looks like you're right about class A..

IMO | International Maritime Organization

Quote:
Ships fitted with AIS shall maintain AIS in operation at all times except where international agreements, rules or standards provide for the protection of navigational information.
But the OP was about too many class B targets transmitting when there is no reason to do so - why not turn it off along with everything else when tied up? No legal requirement to transmit class B either at sea or moored, all it does is clutter other screens and use power.
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Old 16-05-2013, 04:50   #41
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

Quote:
But the OP was about too many class B targets transmitting when there is no reason to do so - why not turn it off along with everything else when tied up? No legal requirement to transmit class B either at sea or moored, all it does is clutter other screens and use power.
Why turn it off, sure if you want to, but its not neccessary , I mean its just a display filtering issue. the electrons dont get tired or anything!


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Old 16-05-2013, 04:57   #42
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Why turn it off, sure if you want to, but its not neccessary , I mean its just a display filtering issue. the electrons dont get tired or anything!


dave
Can't get my head round that, so you get moored up ready to leave the boat , and then leave stuff turned on? Batteries get very tired of pushing electrons around eventually when the shore power trips out.

Makes no sense to me, just untidy and unnecessary.

Quote:
CLass B uses CSMA
That's interesting though, didn't know that.

Nice to know more fishing boats will be transmitting, though most of the bigger ones round atlantic europe seem to be already.
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Old 16-05-2013, 05:02   #43
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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Can't get my head round that, so you get moored up ready to leave the boat , and then leave stuff turned on?
I suspect there are very few boats these days, That are 100% completely shut down.

As I said, Sure if you want to, and I suspect most leisure boats shutdown their electronics when they leave the boat, I suspect what Evans means is boats powered up in the marina, with people on board.

Again I see no issue with AIS ClassB powered up on a marinas berth, the issue is for the display devices to filter out data YOU dont want to see, not stop the source of that data.

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Old 16-05-2013, 05:03   #44
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

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As an aside, why would a 'Security Incident' require AIS to be turned off!.

Dave
If we ever go to Ship Security level 3 there is a provision in the Ships Security Plan for turning off the AIS, in some Ports it is also a possible requirement dependant on the circumstances. Edit: although i have not heard of any reason to yet....

Quite a few vessels transiting around pirate hotspots turn them off, for obvious reasons.
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Old 16-05-2013, 05:11   #45
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Re: Please turn your AIS off when docked/moored/anchored

I would have taught in a Security Incident ( and I dont mean an ship orientated one) Govs would want all the AIS 'ON', given that the current trend with AIS seems to be that it is being migrated to a tracxing /security system rather then its original ideals

( The EU fishing vessel is really about tracking not collision!) The EU governments wants to know who and where all fishing boats are and this is one one step.

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