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Old 17-11-2016, 09:13   #16
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Re: PC or MAC

I've used both for decades and have been on a Macbook Pro for the last seven years. The Apple products have gotten silly expensive and are difficult to repair. Windows has its challenges, but Microsoft laptops come at a price of less than half of an Apple computer and you can replace your own part and do upgrades. Sure, I run Linux and Windows in vmware and parallels, but I can get twice the memory on a Windows laptop.

I agree that used computers are a good deal. Processor and memory speeds are increasing slowly these days. We used to replace our corporate computers every three years. Now? Why bother. The new generation of Macbook Pros are a step backwards. I'm actually looking at used Macbook Pros from the previous generation instead of the new version due to price and loss of ports.

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Old 17-11-2016, 09:27   #17
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Re: PC or MAC

I just turned off updates. It seems to me that updates more often screw things up than anything good. Windows update will occur right in the middle of your doing something, lock the computer and you can do nothing about it. That happened again on my new computer a couple weeks ago. That was the final straw, I turned them off. I had them turned off on my old computer for years, but decided to try leaving them on for this new computer. I'm done trying that. Unfortunately I can find no way to turn off the HP updates, but at least Windows is off.
Starting over I would definitely go Mac, but limited programs would be a problem for me now. I'm too old to relearn all the programs, Excel, Publisher, Photoshop etc.
I've heard that the thing to do is to buy a computer without preloaded software, I forget that that is called... and purchase Windows or whatever you want separately. Evidently there are advantages, although it's a bit more money.
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Old 17-11-2016, 11:54   #18
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Re: PC or MAC

Wils,
As you can see, most will say go with a PC, and I agree completely....and yes, Windows 10 is an okay OS....

But, here is some info from a longtime "electronics guy" (hardware, not software)...who works in high-tech, and uses computers everyday...

I don't want to get too deep into the woods here, but I'd like to remind you that while you can "always add some more RAM", or "upgrade your hard drive", or even "install / upgrade to a SS Drive", replace the screen, change the OS, change browsers, change programs, etc. etc. etc....
The one thing you cannot change in the laptop is the microprocessor....
So, I recommend getting the best processor you can afford...no matter whether PC or MAC!!


I own 3 laptops....one I haven't turned on in years...so let's just say I have two that I use...as well as many clients machines (tablets/2-in-ones, laptops and desktops)...
--- One is a new 15" PC, from this summer....it is a 6th Gen i7 quad-core processor (i7-6820HQ) PC, with 16G RAM....
--- The other is 3 yr old 15" PC, 3rd Gen i5 dual-core processor PC, with 8G RAM...
{I won't bore you with all the clock speeds, RAM buss and speeds, etc..}

The difference in performance / speed is astounding....using the same OS and same programs, the new 6th Gen quad-core i7 laptop is night 'n day faster, has twice the battery life (9 to 10 hours)....and runs cooler...and when I check my memory (RAM) in task manager, I'm never more than 6GB used....so, it isn't just having 16GB of RAM in the newer machine...
(note, I had planned on replacing the 1TB hard drive with a 256MB SS Drive, but after using it for the past couple months, I'm not spending the money on that now!! If, I was on-board full-time, yes, I would opt for the SS Drive, but not for now...)

I've been in the electronics business for > 30 years, and I can say that the 6th Gen quad-core i7 processor surprised me!!
Yes, the PC geeks and gamers are all about "cores" and "speed", but even us old timers who just use some browsers, wordprocessing, pdf's, excel, etc., and/or charting programs, will find the speed and power of a newer generation quad-core processor to be a godsend!!

Please note that these aren't cheap (you won't find 'em in the $300 laptops, or 2-in-1's), but with the "7th Gen" processors just now coming out, the 6th Gen prices might be pretty good...but, even if they don't come down much, I'd still recommend a 6th Gen Quad-core i7...(either the 6820HQ or 6920HQ)
Also, please be aware that the new 7th Gen processors (for laptops) are only dual-core....quad-core versions due out next summer....and even though there is some incremental improvements in the 7th Gen desktop processors vs. the 6th Gen desktop processors, for laptops the 6th gen quad-core processors are faster!!
(not sure I'd spend the $200 on an i7-6970HQ vs. my i7-6820HQ....but, NO WAY would I buy a 7th Gen dual-core processor over a 6th Gen quad-core...)


Again, I know this might seem like a non-issue....especially for those thinking about replacing a laptop every 2 - 3 years....but, trust me on this...
If you're looking for performance, this is what I (and most hardware guys) will recommend...

BTW, you may need to order the laptop....as most laptops with these high-end 6th Gen i7 quad-core processors are the bigger 17" laptops and/or portable workstations....but you CAN get a 13", 14", or 15" laptop with these processors, just usually not right-off-the-shelf in a retail store...



I hope this helps...

Fair winds..

John
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Old 17-11-2016, 12:22   #19
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Re: PC or MAC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wils4x4 View Post
Hi knowledgeable all.......
As we contemplate moving offshore, the ponderance of PC (constant, memory hungry intrusive updates) vrs Mac (not used before) becomes more poignant.
I am interested in how those who maintain a windows platform offshore, do so without guzzling tons of megabytes (".....you must have this update to work efficiently......"). The primary reason for the PC would be routing/weather file receipt and processing - over satellite (aka IridiumGo). only once in port would terrestrial wifi be enabled for TV streaming web browsing etc.
Appreciate your thoughts.....
We run windows, mac and linux oses. The windows and linux are dual boot on the same laptop.

We run airmail on windows and this is connected to our SSB via a Pactor. We use sailmail for gribs and email. No downloading of sw updates

We get to see how inefficient and poor performing windows (all versions (95 through 8.1) is when running linux on the same hardware.

Windows 10 violates all our guidelines around security, offline performance, etc. We've almost migrated completely away from windows. Just two apps left.

We use linux or mac for all software development and compiling.

Linux is the simplest and leanest to update through apt-get to update or upgrade all sw and the os. Mac and windows less so.

We have a NAS onboard, with automated backup and replication to many on boat and off boat locations. The off boat syncs only occur when we have access to cheap or marina wifi.

Our replication tools work well over high latency and intermittent wifi common in marinas. It might take all night or days to replicate but who cares.

On our NAS we have the binaries or source code for all the software we use on all devices including our B&G gear. We keep the 3 most recent versions and all related documentation.

It's mostly automated in terms of replication.

We use a mix of cell phone tethering, mifi, wifi extender and ssb for online access. Streaming is fine via cell phone tether or mifi. The wifi extender helps smooth congested marina wifi but streaming is usually not possible.

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Old 17-11-2016, 12:53   #20
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Re: PC or MAC

Since Mac changed to an Intel cpu, windows can be booted on a Mac. I have a PowerBook Pro booting Win7 and running a windows only nav program. I also have a PC running OpenCPN on Win7 as a back up. Windows 10 is terrible on older computers. It's an energy hog. My cpu use was 99% with no apps running and most of my 8gb ram was in use. When I can't use Win7 anymore I'm going to Linux. For web, word program, etc. it's faster than windows.
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Old 17-11-2016, 13:48   #21
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Re: PC or MAC

Mac build quality is fabulous and their software is sublime, but I cannot bring myself to buy an Apple because their corporate ethics are fundamentally restrictive and anti-competitive. I cannot forgive them for developing a wonderful operating system for the Apple Lisa and, later, the Mackintosh and then adopting restrictive commercial practices that prevented the benefits being enjoyed by the rest of the world. Their mean-spiritedness condemned us to suffer thirty years and counting of Microsoft Windows, technically a far inferior operating system with ony one advantage, ubiquity.
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Old 17-11-2016, 14:18   #22
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Re: PC or MAC

Lepke,
Not disputing your findings, just wondering why mine are different??
(I don't have a touch screen, so perhaps that is why I have much better results?? I don't know, I'm a hardware guy, not an IT professional, nor software guy...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
Windows 10 is terrible on older computers. It's an energy hog. My cpu use was 99% with no apps running and most of my 8gb ram was in use.
Right now, as I write this, running Windows 10 on this laptop, this is what I've got running:

Trend Micro Internet Security...
Internet Explorer browser, with 7 tabs open...
Firefox browser, with 3 tabs open...
Thunderbird e-mail program, with 6 tabs open (and 1000's of 1000's of e-mails stored in...)
Windows Photos, with a few hi-res full-screen photos open..
Adobe PDF reader, with 3 PDF's open...
Task Manager...
Wi-Fi, Cortana, and whatever misc Windows programs are running...


And, my system is not even breathing hard!

According to the Task Manager:
3% to 5% of the CPU @3.3 to 3.5Ghz...(watching vary between 1% to 7%, but averaging about 3% to 4%)
And, 4.5MB of memory (RAM) used...
(the biggest user is the Trend Micro!!! By far!!)
And, I get 9+ hours of battery life, using full performance (not in battery saver mode)...

Just some raw data to throw into the mix...


Fair winds...

John
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