Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-04-2019, 09:37   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Washington DC
Boat: Cape Dory 27
Posts: 32
pactor banned from the usa?

I received this email from winlink

This is NOT an April Fool's joke!


The FCC has just opened for comment RM-11831, a proposal for rule making that would do two things the the US amateur radio rules:


1) remove paragraph (c) of 97.221. This would disallow narrow-bandwidth ARQ modes of 500 Hz or less from outside the specified 97.221 sub bands for automatically controlled digital stations. This will require all Winlink HF gateway stations, regardless of mode/technique, to only operate within these narrow sub bands.


2) modify the wording of 97.309(4) thusly:
(4) An amateur station transmitting a RTTY or data emission using a digital code specified in this paragraph may use any technique whose technical characteristics have been documented publicly, *such as CLOVER, G-TOR, or PacTOR,* (remove *-*, add the following and the protocol used can be be monitored, in it's entirety, by 3rd parties, with freely available open source software, for the purpose of facilitating communications.

This effectively eliminates Pactor 2, 3, and 4 from the US amateur bands unless SCS steps up and publishes complete technical specifications including their proprietary signal processing methods, and produces an open-source monitoring program allowing on-air eavesdropping by third parties.

The Winlink Team will have to produce monitoring software for an unconnected eavesdropper for WINMOR, ARDOP. VARA's author must do the same. The alternative is for Winlink to close shop for US licensees on HF amateur bands.

See and read the new proceeding from the link below. The 30-day comment period opened on 28 March.


https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/fili...seminated,DESC

Unless we receive support from users on this serious threat, Winlink will be forced to close shop on HF in the USA. US and non-US users and gateway operators are urged to educate themselves and comment!

Sincerely,


Lor Kutchins, W3QA

Winlink Development Team


President,

Amateur Radio Safety Foundation, Inc.
__________________

mathiasben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2019, 11:23   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,131
Re: pactor banned from the usa?

Name field doesn't work from a phone.

God the FCC has been crippled the last few years.

Horrible horrible idea.

Contact your Congressional representatives too.
__________________

john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2019, 11:49   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Kiel, Germany
Boat: Farrier F32 RX
Posts: 19
Re: pactor banned from the usa?

Hmm, I don't really see the problem with the second item. Apparently this forces a company to open their specification, which should promote interoperability and competition.

After all their product is using a public resource.

Paul
toolbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2019, 11:54   #4
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 5,106
Re: pactor banned from the usa?

Unfortunately amateur radio is supposed to not encrypt or otherwise prevent listening by the general public or the government. It's pretty clear in the mandate of amateur radio that all communications be in plain sight. Since amateur radio cannot be used for business purposes there should be no need for encryption or other means of securing the communications.

Amateur radio was designed from the beginning to be an experimental service that advanced the radio art for the benefit of all. Closed source modulation formats and encryption are not really needed to do that. But criminals could (do?) use amateur radio by encrypting and using closed source systems. So it would appear on the surface the FCC is just aligning the regulations with the original intent of amateur radio. The frequencies are given to HAMs free of cost and they need to abide by the rules if they want to continue with free spectrum access.
transmitterdan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2019, 15:49   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 195
Re: pactor banned from the usa?

Although over the air Winlink communications are encrypted, the communications can be listened to by government organizations if they wish. Each Winlink base station keeps an unencrypted history of all communications. No one is attempting to hide anything.
Pitchondesign is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2019, 16:04   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,131
Re: pactor banned from the usa?

The most effective encryption - for secrecy - is open source.

One has nothing to do with the other.

Just saying.
john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2019, 16:28   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 113
Re: pactor banned from the usa?

SO nothing has been banned. There is a notice for comments. Most likely due to some ham getting his panties bunched up and petitioning the FCC, so process is to request comments.

Put your comments in and say no keep it.
__________________
Gary
ohgary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2019, 17:43   #8
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 5,106
Re: pactor banned from the usa?

HAM radio has always been, by law, ďopen sourceĒ. I think it is the same in all countries. At least it used to be.

I wonder why the FCC even need new rules. Iím pretty sure encrypted comms on HAM bands is already against the law. Maybe this is an attempt to close a loophole. But it has always been the case that all communications should be done in the open. Digital is allowed but it canít be used to hide a message.
transmitterdan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2019, 19:33   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43
Posts: 8,327
Re: pactor banned from the usa?

Further info in this article:


https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/0...adio_spectrum/
StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2019, 20:01   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Washington DC
Boat: Cape Dory 27
Posts: 32
Re: pactor banned from the usa?

If this rule change is put into place as described would there be any impact to those using a pactor modem and sailmail with a ships station license?
mathiasben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2019, 20:20   #11
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 6,901
Re: pactor banned from the usa?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathiasben View Post
If this rule change is put into place as described would there be any impact to those using a pactor modem and sailmail with a ships station license?
The propsed rules and interpretation would apply to HAM bands. Sailmail operates on Marine SSB channels, so would not be directly affected. From a cruisers practical point of view who uses Sailmail it would eliminate the backup option of getting weather through Winlink using a Pactor modem.
Paul L is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2019, 20:33   #12
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 5,106
Re: pactor banned from the usa?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathiasben View Post
If this rule change is put into place as described would there be any impact to those using a pactor modem and sailmail with a ships station license?


No, because you have a valid license that you paid money to get. You are allowed to engage in secure communications using that license. This is about amateur radio stations. They are not allowed to use secure comms.
transmitterdan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2019, 20:35   #13
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 5,106
Re: pactor banned from the usa?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathiasben View Post
If this rule change is put into place as described would there be any impact to those using a pactor modem and sailmail with a ships station license?


No, this is only about amateur radio.
transmitterdan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2019, 22:05   #14
Registered User
 
Brian.D's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Oceanside Ca
Boat: Lancer 27PS
Posts: 76
Re: pactor banned from the usa?

WinLink is not encrypted, it is compressed. It uses the OpenB2F protocol. Because it is an open protocol, anyone who has programing capability can create a program to "listen in" on the transmissions.

Please read: https://winlink.org/B2F
__________________
Brian D
KF6BL
S/V Takara
Brian.D is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2019, 04:14   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,131
Re: pactor banned from the usa?

The rule should then make such use OK
__________________

john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
pactor

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Upgrade Pactor 2 to Pactor 3 ?? pjandart Marine Electronics 15 06-11-2014 11:54
For Sale: Pactor II modem with Pactor 3 firmware seamaster Classifieds Archive 10 30-11-2013 19:32
For Sale: Pactor 2 Pro with Pactor 3 license installed s/v Holiday Classifieds Archive 1 28-07-2012 22:24
For Sale: Icom 802, AT 140, Pactor 2 w Pactor 3 lic Vyndance Classifieds Archive 10 02-06-2012 17:38



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:20.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.