Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-11-2014, 07:49   #1
Registered User
 
David Dennis's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: West Palm Beach, Florida
Boat: Grand Banks 42
Posts: 26
Ordered the wrong Vesper AIS, Mfg allows no return :(

Well, I was a complete idiot, and it looks like I'll pay a stiff price for it.

I ordered a complete suite of marine electronics from Langer-Krell, a Miami-based vendor with an excellent reputation. In the middle of the order process, I decided to swap out the VHF with AIS to what I described as the "Vesper AIS unit with the built-in display". Since the Vesper web site emphasizes the WatchMate Vision, i thought it would be clear that was the unit I wanted. Unfortunately, they also make the 850, which uses an old-style monochrome display. As an egomaniac who wants the latest and greatest, and whose other electronics choices amply reflected that, I thought it would be clear I wanted the Vision. To be honest I had completely forgotten there was also the 850.

So installation day came, and I'm delighted with my Simrad NSS12 (flybridge) and NSS7 (cabin). Alas, not so much with the Vesper 850, which is nicely designed but has a display barely visible in bright sunlight, and conspicuously lacks the better user interface bells and whistles of the newer unit. When they took my order, they did mention they were giving me the 850, but I didn't realize that was not the Vision.

So that seems like a simple enough mixup, something that happens all the time, and the solution is to take the 850 and exchange it for the Vision, right? Turns out that for some reason the Vesper folks don't want to do it. Apparently the 850 was programmed at the factory with my settings. Now, I would think it would be the simple matter of an hour or so of labor to take it back, program it with the next customer's setting and give me the new, shinier unit I want with my own settings. At a higher price, too, I might add.

So I am curious. Why on earth can't they do that, and is there any way to persuade them to do what I would think is the simple to do, right thing and exchange the unit?

(You can certainly say I was an idiot not to check the model number and realize the mistake before installation, but realize that I have already admitted this ).

Thanks for any thoughts.

David
__________________

__________________
David Dennis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2014, 08:13   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winter Bahamas - Summer BC
Boat: Lagoon 450, Bavaria Vision 40
Posts: 615
Re: Ordered the wrong Vesper AIS, Mfg allows no return :(

Unfortunately, in the US AIS units have to be shipped with the MMSI number programmed by the seller. It is the law. I am from Canada and always get mine without MMSI programmed. I then do it myself, but only get one shot at it. Again, it is the law that you can not reprogram the MMSI. A little bit like painting your own license plate. I guess home land security plays a role here.

The services I found with Google for reprogramming AIS requires a new MMSI number and a proof of insurance for the new boat.

It may be that your seller does not have the tools to change the MMSI in the unit. For the first programming the AIS unit provides a menu item to program it once and thats it. So the seller can program it easily once. Special equipment, maybe even pulling and exchanging the chip that stores the number is required.

Contact Vesper directly. I always found them very helpful. They may be able to take your unit back and ship you the other one for a cost. Possibly cheaper than reselling the one you have.
__________________

__________________
roetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2014, 12:18   #3
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 2,943
Re: Ordered the wrong Vesper AIS, Mfg allows no return :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dennis
Now, I would think it would be the simple matter of an hour or so of labor to take it back, program it with the next customer's setting and give me the new, shinier unit I want with my own settings. At a higher price, too, I might add.

So I am curious. Why on earth can't they do that, and is there any way to persuade them to do what I would think is the simple to do, right thing and exchange the unit?
It would be relatively simple. So, yes they CAN do it, of course. The question is, why would you expect them to do it for free, and that you have a right to this solution?

It can be argued that it would be good business for a vendor to go above and beyond, to build a reputation for superlative customer service. Unfortunately in this global, always-connected market there is tremendous price pressure, and most consumers have opted for low price over customer service. So for most vendors, the low profit doesn't usually reward occasionally eating the loss for a customer error.

Did they offer to do the exchange for a restocking fee or a fixed charge to reset the old unit for resale?

Quote:
Well, I was a complete idiot, and it looks like I'll pay a stiff price for it.

I ordered a complete suite of marine electronics ... In the middle of the order process, I decided to swap out the ....
Having worked in supply/service, let me tell you there is a special hell reserved for customers who make changes to a complex order at the 11th hour (and screw it up, to boot). Of course you should pay a stiff price for that.
__________________
Lake-Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2014, 13:31   #4
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 3,466
Images: 83
Re: Ordered the wrong Vesper AIS, Mfg allows no return :(

I have the 850 and am really happy with it. I would buy another & I recommend them often to others. They use less power than the new version and they are totally stand-alone. Aside from the usual features, I have learned to rely also on it as an anchor watch.

That said, I have also found the folks at Vesper very helpful. I would expect that if you go directly to them (rather than through your original supplier) that they would be happy to please you.

US laws require that AIS shipped here from outside of the US be pre-programmed with your MMSI and boat information. I don't think these can be reprogrammed here. The data may even be burned in so that the chip needs to be replaced - don't know.
__________________
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2014, 15:27   #5
Registered User
 
David Dennis's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: West Palm Beach, Florida
Boat: Grand Banks 42
Posts: 26
Re: Ordered the wrong Vesper AIS, Mfg allows no return :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
It would be relatively simple. So, yes they CAN do it, of course. The question is, why would you expect them to do it for free, and that you have a right to this solution?
I didn't expect them to do it for free they simply told me they could not do the exchange at all. Langer-Krell enclosed a reply to their email to Vesper asking about it, and the email says Vesper is unwilling to take it back. So at this point the situation appears to be Vesper's fault (and mine, of course, for not verifying the order properly), not Langer-Krell's.

The last minute change was right before I finalized the order it was not while the order was in place so I think your remarks were a bit unreasonable.

I was impressed by the responses Vesper has written to messages on this forum, which is a major part of the reason I decided to get a Vesper AIS. This message is in part an attempt to reach out to them to see if we can find a solution.

David
__________________
David Dennis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2014, 15:32   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: Ordered the wrong Vesper AIS, Mfg allows no return :(

How could it possibly be Vesper's "fault". For one they would never be able to sell the unit as "new". They are probably not in the business of refurbishing/reselling products. Basically if they took it back it would be scrapped.

It was you of course that made the ordering mistake. I would suggest you just suck it up.
__________________
The Blue Dot Campaign. This Changes Everything.
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2014, 15:42   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Ordered the wrong Vesper AIS, Mfg allows no return :(

Contact Vesper directly. If it hasn't been installed/used, I don't see why they need to treat it as used if they took it back. They only need to reprogram the mmsi number, which doesn't "use" it in any way.

And I'm not sure they ship direct from Vesper in New Zealand with the mmsi preprogrammed. When we ordered ours from a US company, I gave them our mmsi information and they shipped it out that day, with me getting it two days later. I was under the impression that they did the programming - not Vesper.

Also, for future reference, I have found that buying VHF, AIS and peripherals from Miltech Marine to be some of the best customer service and experience in the industry. I don't know if Miltech would be able to take back a unit, but they certainly would be trying to help you figure out your alternatives. They are just one of those rare good companies in the business.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2014, 15:49   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: Ordered the wrong Vesper AIS, Mfg allows no return :(

Ah yes Mark, but the OP did say it had been installed. Ergo, used.
__________________
The Blue Dot Campaign. This Changes Everything.
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2014, 16:28   #9
Registered User
 
scuba0_1's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: naples
Boat: 2005 Catalina 350
Posts: 670
Re: Ordered the wrong Vesper AIS, Mfg allows no return :(

It will be interesting since it was installed and you will have to take it apart to resend it to them it won't be in the original package so they can't resell it as new and it would be wrong for them to repackage it for you and sell it as new I have a feeling since you installed it that you're going to eat it. They don't sell used ones. And I know I'd be mad if I bought the one that you're trying to return and it was sold to me as new. This must be where that old term measure twice and cut once would work.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
scuba0_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2014, 17:44   #10
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,890
Re: Ordered the wrong Vesper AIS, Mfg allows no return :(

David.... I understand your frustration...... These things tend to happen when the myriad of networking details and tech tunnel vision misses the clients basic brief.

If already installed but this issue is important enough to you... Try and have the suppliet sell the one you have at a discount and buy the latest

Otherwise just enjoy what you have and wait for an even better/newer model to come out in 2 short years
__________________
Pelagic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2014, 04:06   #11
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Re: Ordered the wrong Vesper AIS, Mfg allows no return :(

The 850 - and all Vesper units, I think - output to plotters etc.

If the problem is the screen not the function keep it and route the output to a more suitable display.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2014, 08:40   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 83
Re: Ordered the wrong Vesper AIS, Mfg allows no return :(

I would contact Vesper and ask that if in fact it can be re-programed and the steps involved, i.e. sending it to a dealer or the factory, then sell it yourself as a barely used unit. Lick your wounds and buy the unit you wanted.
__________________
Imprezza72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2014, 09:03   #13
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,387
Re: Ordered the wrong Vesper AIS, Mfg allows no return :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dennis View Post

1. So at this point the situation appears to be Vesper's fault (and mine, of course, for not verifying the order properly), not Langer-Krell's.

2. – so I think your remarks were a bit unreasonable.

3. I was impressed by the responses Vesper has written to messages on this forum, which is a major part of the reason I decided to get a Vesper AIS. This message is in part an attempt to reach out to them to see if we can find a solution.
David,

1. That's about as big a denial of reality as I've heard in a long time.

2. See #1.

3. Doing it through this forum only exposed you to reality. Contact them directly, not indirectly through this forum.

I really wish you all the good luck, but you really did create the situation yourself, and trying to dump it on a manufacturer or reseller is, well, not the height of sensitivity.

Sometimes folks post here, and the responses reflect that their approach may not be the best. Then they start arguing with the answers. What was that old movie: "You can't handle the truth!"

I'd take Dan's advice and use it.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2014, 09:05   #14
Moderator
 
nigel1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Manchester, UK
Boat: Beneteau 473
Posts: 5,185
Re: Ordered the wrong Vesper AIS, Mfg allows no return :(

I was happy with the 850,although I had a choice to go for the Vision.
The selling point for me was the much lower power consumption of the 850 over the Vision.

I integrated the 850 with a Chart Plotter as it gives a much better situational awareness that way, but at anchor, or well away from land, I turn off the CP and just use the 850 both for AIS and for position fixing, and at anchor, it has a good anchor alarm.
__________________
Nigel
Beneteau 473
Manchester, UK
nigel1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2014, 09:34   #15
Registered User
 
Ndavies's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: On the Ocean
Boat: Hunter 42 Passage
Posts: 164
Re: Ordered the wrong Vesper AIS, Mfg allows no return :(

I have the Vision and love it. When I did my install, I had a couple of conflicts with other instruments, but contacted Vesper direct. Jeff was fantrastic - we were in the Bahamas with limited WiFi and he was in New Zealand. We always had a response within 8 hours and even a phone call to be sure we were up and running. My recommendation would be to contact Vesper direct.

Neil
S/V Midnight Sun II
www.Midnightsunii.com
__________________

__________________
Ndavies is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ais

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vesper Marine AIS Neptune's Gear Vendor Spotlight - Great Deals for CF Members! 201 27-11-2017 10:56
Vesper AIS SP-160 "relay/splitter" test results, lab/real world ka4wja Marine Electronics 25 23-01-2016 11:12
AIS: Icom MA 530 TR or Watchmate 850 from Vesper Alecadi Marine Electronics 41 19-04-2013 22:43
Vesper 850 Watchmate AIS Trident voyager Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 10 20-09-2012 08:40
Vesper AIS displays for cheap Paul L Marine Electronics 6 15-06-2012 07:12



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:29.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.