Old Raymarine or New Raymarine?

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by Wallaby

Gotta wonder why that C80 lists for $700 on Ebay if it is so 'antiquated.' Boat electronics are like car models--manufacturers make minor changes so people keep updating.

Just out of curiosity have you ever tried to talk to Raymarine tech support regarding older/obsolete gear? No support whatsoever. Won't even discuss it.

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by travellerw

Since I work in EE and have had my C80 completely apart, I'm gonna call ******** on you here. The difference between a C80 and a modern chart plotter is HUGE. Or any modern boat electronics against 15 year old gear.

Think about it.. Cell phone progression over the last 15 years has been explosive. Processors alone are 10 - 20 times faster and use 1/10 the power. Do you think that the plotter manufacturers haven't adopted this new technology?

Hell, the difference between the CCFL and LED backlighting is worth the upgrade. Not to mention the bonded glass technology that B&G Tritons use. Absolutely no way for water intrusion to kill them (how many ST60 died from this).

People are paying $700 for antiquated technology because they don't understand the different communication protocols and think they will need to ditch everything if they replace the plotter with a new one. This has bred and artificial market for old gear.

You sound pretty knowledgeable, perhaps I could ask an opinion? I have an older SL70 Raytheon Pathfinder radar that there is no tech support for anymore. Am I foolish to continue using such an outdated system? The more I read about outdated technology I begin to wonder if this unit will expire at the worst possible time...It seems like electronics are becoming obsolete soon after they are introduced.

[neophytecruiser]

If the question is strictly a binary one, old versus new, I'd opted to go with the new. As pointed out by others, Raymarine support seems to evaporate pretty quickly once a new model of electronics is introduced. As another poster pointed out that Raymarine is not the only vendor to choose from and doesn't rank as the gold standard in instrumentation.

The suggestion of AIS is a good one. I scoffed at the added expense just a couple of years ago. I've since installed a WiFi/bluetooth capable Vesper AIS and have become a believer. Coupled with a LifeProof protected IPad, I now have the AIS data superimposed on I-sailor nav charts, all available at the helm station (or wherever I choose to carry the IPad). This set-up was used in June for the transit between La Paz, BCS, MX to San Diego, Ca. via Cabo San Lucas. I'm currently looking into replacing the old Furuno radar with a new IPad compatible Furuno model (pros and cons to this, BTW). Data integration can be useful, but there is more than one solution to integration. These days one does not need to limit ones self to a single (and in the case of RM) mediocre manufacturer to achieve this goal.

[roland stockham]

From experience I will now no longer buy used electronics. Old stock is no problem but used just does not have the reliability. I would definitely NOT upgrade just to get everything matching. Companies love to create brand loyalty as it makes them more $$ but often different brands are better/cheaper in different areas. In your case Garmin plotters and all there nav stuff has a really good reputation. While getting and fitting a new radar make any necessary adjustment to you wiring so that it works as a NMEA network not a proprietary one (probably buy adding an Actisense server). Then in future you are free to choose the best gear not stuck with what a particular manufacturer makes at the time

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by morven55

You sound pretty knowledgeable, perhaps I could ask an opinion? I have an older SL70 Raytheon Pathfinder radar that there is no tech support for anymore. Am I foolish to continue using such an outdated system? The more I read about outdated technology I begin to wonder if this unit will expire at the worst possible time...It seems like electronics are becoming obsolete soon after they are introduced.

Thats a tough question, and one I asked not to long ago in the forums. I actually thought about pulling my radar completely and just going with AIS. Some posters convinced me it would be foolish to pull a working radar.

However, like you I was worried about it shitting the bed at an inopportune moment. Since the backlighting are the most common failures in aging electronics, I decided to refurb that component (cost me about $20). I know this isn't a solution for everyone, but it was how I compromised.

If I was going to replace my radar, I would look very hard at a Garmin radar bundle. I think its one of the best values out there.

[bfiegener]

Not my experience at all with Raymarine's tech support. Their forum is extremely helpful and they respond within 24 hours. If you cant find the answer you are looking for you can post your own. I found that there is a wealth of information on their forum.

Also, I have the C80 and love it. Everything is totally integrated, AIS, radar, autopilot, instruments, VHF. Its all raymarine so integration was easy. Keep in mind too that the C80, and I believe the E80 will not support the digital radars. You will have to stick to analog.

[adlib2]

Originally Posted by sailprincess

My family and I are sailing from Victoria to La Paz, MX later this year. Our new-to-us-last-year boat came with a Garmin 720 Chartplotter and everything else Raymarine (tri data, autohelm). We need to add radar and also want to switch our chartplotter to Raymarine at the same time so that all systems will 'talk' and integrate smoothly. We are trying to decide if it is worth it to buy the new Raymarine E95, or pick up a used E80. We are thinking that the new Raymarine (Flir) is not made as well as the old Raymarine (Raytheon) and that it might be a better (and obviously cheaper) decision to go with the E80 classic. Either way, we have to buy a Raymarine digital dome and bracket to mount on the mast. Anyone care to share their thoughts?

I recently upgraded some of my Raymarine equipment that uses SeaTalk2 and now have SeaTalk 1&2. I purchased a SeaTalk2 Starter Kit ( T70134) directly from Raymarine tel: 1-800-539-5539. All integrates flawlessly.

[quandary]

I have the full set of Raymarine kit based on E120 classic including AIS, radar autopilot, ST60 etc all new in about 2008. I have looked at upgrading to new lighthouse/dragonfly but am told that I'll have to replace my radar with digital and basically rewire everything at huge cost as the old radar cannot work with the new software. The alternatives of buying a couple of portable Ipads (for backup) and using navigation apps is starting to sound a lot more interesting with the "old" Raymarine just for basics. Even if the old radar isn't as clear as the new digital, having AIS as well makes it quite adequate I think. The Ipads would interface easily to the iridium go hotspot for weather etc. Maybe the hardwired stuff is on the way out? The Ipads (if put the oven) might also survive a lightening strike while the networked kit is likely to be destroyed?

[adlib2]

Originally Posted by morven55

You sound pretty knowledgeable, perhaps I could ask an opinion? I have an older SL70 Raytheon Pathfinder radar that there is no tech support for anymore. Am I foolish to continue using such an outdated system? The more I read about outdated technology I begin to wonder if this unit will expire at the worst possible time...It seems like electronics are becoming obsolete soon after they are introduced.

Should you be interested I have a Radar Display that should be compatible with your system. Used it for years at the below decks Nav station and sparingly during bad weather and ocean passages with a RayChart 520 Plus to read charts. Have an E-Series at the helm.
With less ocean voyaging I dismantled the Nav station display and haven't got around to listing on eBay. Unit cost $4600 when new, if interested contact me for pricing. Have many hsb2 cables and fittings with C-Map Charts.

RL80C PLUS10" LCD DISPLAY
Daylight Viewable 10.4" Color Pathfinder Radar Display with hsb2 networking capability
Product Number: E52037 Serial Number: 02220151 Purchased Date: 12/11/2005

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by travellerw

Thats a tough question, and one I asked not to long ago in the forums. I actually thought about pulling my radar completely and just going with AIS. Some posters convinced me it would be foolish to pull a working radar.

However, like you I was worried about it shitting the bed at an inopportune moment. Since the backlighting are the most common failures in aging electronics, I decided to refurb that component (cost me about $20). I know this isn't a solution for everyone, but it was how I compromised.

If I was going to replace my radar, I would look very hard at a Garmin radar bundle. I think its one of the best values out there.

Thanks for the response, electronics has always been like black magic to me so I rely on others experience. Mine works and the display is in good condition, and like you I decided to use it until it dies. I am contemplating AIS, but in my area there are a lot of fishboats that do not use it at all so...

I do appreciate the feedback, at least I'm not the only one with stone age radar.

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by bfiegener

Not my experience at all with Raymarine's tech support. Their forum is extremely helpful and they respond within 24 hours. If you cant find the answer you are looking for you can post your own. I found that there is a wealth of information on their forum.

Also, I have the C80 and love it. Everything is totally integrated, AIS, radar, autopilot, instruments, VHF. Its all raymarine so integration was easy. Keep in mind too that the C80, and I believe the E80 will not support the digital radars. You will have to stick to analog.

I had a specific question and was told that there is no tech support for my outdated unit...he even sounded surprised that it still worked. Would not even discuss it. That got my attention. But to be fair I did not try their forum, wasn't even aware it existed.

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by adlib2

Should you be interested I have a Radar Display that should be compatible with your system. Used it for years at the below decks Nav station and sparingly during bad weather and ocean passages with a RayChart 520 Plus to read charts. Have an E-Series at the helm.
With less ocean voyaging I dismantled the Nav station display and haven't got around to listing on eBay. Unit cost $4600 when new, if interested contact me for pricing. Have many hsb2 cables and fittings with C-Map Charts.

RL80C PLUS10" LCD DISPLAY
Daylight Viewable 10.4" Color Pathfinder Radar Display with hsb2 networking capability
Product Number: E52037 Serial Number: 02220151 Purchased Date: 12/11/2005

Thanks for the heads up, but if this one expires I suspect I will go with a company that has better tech support.

[sck5]

My old boat (sold earlier this year) had a garmin plotter and radar and raymarine everything else. It had no problem with integrating the various parts. My new boat is all raymarine. I wish I still had garmin but the raymarine stuff is fine too. What I totally dont wish is that I had old equipment. The new stuff is better.

[monte]

agree Raymarine are useless with after sales support, especially if its not the current model. We had a current model plotter that had a bug in the software that caused the log to work incorrectly. When I informed Raymarine they said they know. When I asked when they would fix it they said they weren't planning on fixing it and maybe their next plotter would work better.
When we had a problem with the radar not working they said send back the plotter, its under warranty. I had to pay for removal and postage both ways and installation. They fixed the problem but wouldn't tell me how or what the problem was. Great service, Im out of pocket a couple of hundred bucks for something they wont even say what was wrong, even though it was obviously a software glitch of faulty component.
Also bought a new raymarine plotter that had a 3yr old chart installed. I asked for the current chart but they told me its not their problem, maybe it sat on the retailers shelf for a few years. Customer service...Raymarine? Forget it..
Oh I almost forgot, I have a new e7. I asked raymarine how to wire an external alarm because its a bit hard to hear inside. 'oh we removed the external alarm feature now, just buy another plotter and mount that inside as well...'

[Pizzazz]

Originally Posted by sailprincess

My family and I are sailing from Victoria to La Paz, MX later this year. Our new-to-us-last-year boat came with a Garmin 720 Chartplotter and everything else Raymarine (tri data, autohelm). We need to add radar and also want to switch our chartplotter to Raymarine at the same time so that all systems will 'talk' and integrate smoothly. We are trying to decide if it is worth it to buy the new Raymarine E95, or pick up a used E80. We are thinking that the new Raymarine (Flir) is not made as well as the old Raymarine (Raytheon) and that it might be a better (and obviously cheaper) decision to go with the E80 classic. Either way, we have to buy a Raymarine digital dome and bracket to mount on the mast. Anyone care to share their thoughts?

I am a big fan of old Raymarine equipment and I see very little reason to spend crazy money for upgrades without getting new functionality. My suggestion would be to get an E80 (or a C80) and an older analog radome. Then you need to have a VHF/AIS radio so that you can feed AIS data to the E80. Keep the Garmin as a backup. This way you will have a large display (useful for radar), AIS, MARPA and DSC calling, pretty much anything that you need.

One benefit of the older systems is that they have either 4:3 (C-series) or vertical (Pathfinder series) displays which makes it easier to spot targets. On the new wide screen MFDs you need to get to the 9" range to have useable displays. That is far more important than resolution or back light technology.

Another factor in the decision old vs. new is to understand key technology changes in the last 15 years.

For radars, you start with analog, then digital (no real benefit, just a different cable), then HD digital (clear benefit due to improved signal processing), then broadband radar from Navico (solid state, much better close range performance, worse long range performance than pulse based HD radar). Thus, if you want radar you either go cheap (old analog) or HD (if you want long range, offshore and storm tracking) or change to a Navico system to get the benefits of 3G/4G close in.

For autopilots, the biggest change is the availability of cheap (<$600) heading sensors that greatly improve autopilot tracking and also help the radar. It is the equivalent of a large ship gyro compass.

Chartplotters, once you have AIS support, nothing revolutionary has happened. Easier to use, more integrated, better networked, etc. but no new functionality and still much harder to use/slower that an ipad.

I hope that helps. I am also expecting Raymarine to launch a competitor to Navico's broadband radar very soon, so this may factor in in your decision.