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Old 26-08-2015, 17:56   #61
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Re: OK, I am HF certified... now what?

A bit of stuff here on the allowed bits of the spectrum for hams are here .. the RSBG put out some good publications by the way HF bands - Radio Society of Great Britain - Main Site : Radio Society of Great Britain – Main Site

You can see where Australian marine band weather traffic is HF Marine Radio Services

Note that Ham goes 3.5,7,14, etc...
While marine band goes 2,4,6,8,....
Thats a bit rough and basic but you get the idea....
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Old 26-08-2015, 18:05   #62
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Re: OK, I am HF certified... now what?

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I can't comment on the clipping issue but assumed that had been resolved by Icom on the newer radio.
I won't comment on DSC either except to say I was scared for life by experiences with it when it first appeared on commercial ships....

Moving right along I would say the 802 would be the way to go... not a whole lot dearer than a new 710 and only a part of the whole system.... lookee here and scroll down ... Marine Radio Packages - Marine HF SSB Radios - Icom M802 HF Marine Radio WITH DSC IC-M802 (DSC Version) 2 Year Warranty - radios.net.au shop

Only way to go would be an Icom AT-140 tuner .... its automatic... manual tuners make my brain hurt....

Simple to set up... power to radio.... coax and control cable to tuner... connect your ground and your ant to the tuner and away you go... easy when you say it quick..

What are you going to use it for?
I receive fax and voice weather on the marine bands but I can do that with a $100 portable...
I use it on occasion on cruising nets... the Isabella Net (? I think thats what it was called ) up in Polynesia and the Patagonian Net are both on Marine bands.
Its primary use is HF email /Sailmail and I get my money's worth from the above.

In the Tasman / E coast Oz area there are a couple of cruising nets on the ham bands, Tony's in NZ and the Comedy Net on the East coast.
Ham radio is very much whatever you want it to be........
Thanks for the post El Pinguino, I'm intrigued by your DSC experience. I have no experience of any significance except our delivery trip bringing the boat home where I started to think the VHF was not working because we could not raise any of the ships bearing down on us in Bass Strait. Further reading seems to suggest that this is a common experience and SOME people say DSC would have given us better results, not infallible, but better. Anyway, each of the Coast Guard stations could hear our VHF ok, so that was a bit reassuring.

The recent course I attended really pushed the idea of DSC as essential. Have to weigh up that "official" line vs the real life experience of those, like yourself, out on the water for real. I think I know who's judgment I will trust.

Thanks for the vote on the 802. What will we use it for..? Not sure. I am assuming weather, in any format I can make it work with. Calling for help. Cruising nets. Calling back to home on the HAM bands?

To be honest it is all just guess work since the longest trip we've taken so far is 500 miles, but we'll be heading round Oz in a few years, and if we have the confidence/desire, across to the closer Islands, Vanuatu etc, maybe NZ if we feel REALLY brave. Can't have too many communications options to my mind, so there will be something satellite based on board, but at the same time I don't want the boat to look like a travelling spy station, hence my interest in a radio that can do both marine and HAM.

I ask about the manual tuner because a certain credible CF member suggests they are better. I am inclined to go for manual where sensible, 20 odd years of making a living from technology has given me a healthy distrust of automatic stuff. Seems like you are happy with the auto tuner and I notice the most common configuration of 802 includes the AT-140 so I assume most of the issues have been resolved.

Matt
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Old 26-08-2015, 18:38   #63
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Re: OK, I am HF certified... now what?

Oh, my DSC experience was back in the dream time... got a fancy GMDSS ticket ... the course was taken by some one who had the same experience as the rest of us and was just reading from a book...the equipment wasn't user friendly it was positevly user hostile... you would call the techs to come and 'look' at some problem and sure enough they would come and look at it while scratching their chins...

And then there were the 'mayday relays'.... bloody alarm would go off in the dark while you were in the middle of some critical manouevre... quickest way to shut it up was press the mayday relay button which would send it away to bother some one else... who would.... I saw a record of one that started in the Canaries ( bungled test transmission ), found its way into the pacific and bounced around there for a couple of days and is probably still out there somewhere....

I'm sure that today its very good.

If setting up a new radio station I would go for an 801/802 but I already have plenty of stuff. I'd look on it as a radio that does marine and ham and comes with DSC as a bonus.

I'm not aware of any issues with ICOM tuners.... they are idiot proof... which works for me... I just use this stuff... I don't know how it works... sez he who has spent the morning trying to get his PC to talk to and control the frequencies on the 710 ( putting everything back together again after lay up) ... finally 'phoned a friend'.. all sorted now...
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Old 26-08-2015, 18:52   #64
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Re: OK, I am HF certified... now what?

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
...found its way into the pacific and bounced around there for a couple of days and is probably still out there somewhere....


Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post

I'm sure that today its very good.

....
OK.... if you say so.


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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post

If setting up a new radio station I would go for an 801/802
Thank you for that.

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post

... sez he who has spent the morning trying to get his PC to talk to and control the frequencies on the 710 ( putting everything back together again after lay up) ... finally 'phoned a friend'.. all sorted now...


You see that bit, right there... reminds me of going to the office. Don't need that on a boat, have spent the last 20 years getting computers to talk to other things. Hoping like heck I won't have to do any of that on the boat.

Matt
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Old 26-08-2015, 20:23   #65
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Re: OK, I am HF certified... now what?

Matt, if you want to learn about problems with 802s, do a CG Google special Search on Icom 802 problems. Browse around a bit. Make up your own mind. El Pinguino's recommendation is very interesting.

Personal friend has had many experts' inputs, still has problems with it.

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Old 26-08-2015, 20:28   #66
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Re: OK, I am HF certified... now what?

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Matt, if you want to learn about problems with 802s, do a CG Google special Search on Icom 802 problems. Browse around a bit. Make up your own mind. El Pinguino's recommendation is very interesting.

Personal friend has had many experts' inputs, still has problems with it.

Ann
Thanks Ann, not owning one I wasn't aware of ongoing problems.

So I shall revise my statement... 'if the bugs have been ironed out I would...'

As it is I'll stick with my 710 and the 706 on the yacht...
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Old 26-08-2015, 20:42   #67
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Re: OK, I am HF certified... now what?

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Thanks Ann, not owning one I wasn't aware of ongoing problems.

So I shall revise my statement... 'if the bugs have been ironed out I would...'

As it is I'll stick with my 710 and the 706 on the yacht...
Why Ping, ain't you been payin' attention? At least two Comedians have had ongoing issues with their 802s: VK2PRA and VA3BLV (now out of cruising).

Some of the issues have been to do wiith the old clipping problem that WJA says has been laid to rest, but others have seemed to be associated with the relationshiip between the 802 and the AT140. PRA is still fighting it, with several trips back to the mfg for 'the cure".

And I think that Matt may have been referring to me as the user of an elderly MFJ manual tuner. It is now almost 30 years of full time on board use, and it still works... and when we were dismasted in I-one, it tuned a length of scrap wire laid over the dodger and onto the foredeck. Dunno if an AT would have done that. I surely would like the ease of an auto tuner, but have not as yet gone that route.

Now, I hope that your chore list is growing shorter and that your return to the Comedy net comes soon.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 26-08-2015, 21:10   #68
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Re: OK, I am HF certified... now what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Matt, if you want to learn about problems with 802s, do a CG Google special Search on Icom 802 problems. Browse around a bit. Make up your own mind. El Pinguino's recommendation is very interesting.

Personal friend has had many experts' inputs, still has problems with it.

Ann

Ann, I have done a lot of this searching. The clipping issue comes up again and again, and it does appear that they are sensitive to some aspects of poor installations, I am just not finding any other consistent problems. Part of this may simply be because I am not familiar enough with the terminology to search intelligently. and like any popular technical device, broad searches on problems produce a lot of results because of the sheer number of people using them. Following a lot of discussions to their conclusion gave me no feel for endemic issues, but I could easily have missed something.

Anyway, I am not wedded to the idea of the 802 but I do like the idea of a marine hf radio that does HAM bands as well. I do really want to keep things simple and uncluttered on the boat. I am still looking for other radios that do both.

Matt




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Old 26-08-2015, 21:12   #69
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Re: OK, I am HF certified... now what?

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And I think that Matt may have been referring to me as the user of an elderly MFJ manual tuner.

Assume nothing Jim, you ain't the only CF member with opinions I value. ;^)


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Old 26-08-2015, 21:18   #70
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Re: OK, I am HF certified... now what?

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Why Ping, ain't you been payin' attention? At least two Comedians have had ongoing issues with their 802s: VK2PRA and VA3BLV (now out of cruising).

Some of the issues have been to do wiith the old clipping problem that WJA says has been laid to rest, but others have seemed to be associated with the relationshiip between the 802 and the AT140. PRA is still fighting it, with several trips back to the mfg for 'the cure".

And I think that Matt may have been referring to me as the user of an elderly MFJ manual tuner. It is now almost 30 years of full time on board use, and it still works... and when we were dismasted in I-one, it tuned a length of scrap wire laid over the dodger and onto the foredeck. Dunno if an AT would have done that. I surely would like the ease of an auto tuner, but have not as yet gone that route.

Now, I hope that your chore list is growing shorter and that your return to the Comedy net comes soon.

Cheers,

Jim
It was the glue fumes wot dun it... honest....

Knew they had probs but didn't realise they involved 802's.

So what else is there out there in the way of new marine radios?

Yes the list is getting shorter.... and the same jobs that I really don't want to do keep getting shoved to the end.
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Old 26-08-2015, 23:39   #71
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Re: OK, I am HF certified... now what?

I have an 802 with the 140 automatic tuner and have no had no problems to date.
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Old 27-08-2015, 01:12   #72
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Re: OK, I am HF certified... now what?

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...as the user of an elderly MFJ manual tuner. It is now almost 30 years of full time on board use, and it still works... and when we were dismasted in I-one, it tuned a length of scrap wire laid over the dodger and onto the foredeck. Dunno if an AT would have done that. I surely would like the ease of an auto tuner, but have not as yet gone that route.
Nice to know I'm not the only luddite still using a Manuel tuner. Mostly it's my cheapskate nature, but they are small and simple, though I've never actually pulled one to bits to confirm the simple bit!

I'd have no problem with a proper ATU, but being me I'd still have my trusty 40 year old MTU and Crystal set stashed away someplace dry.

If your going to fork out for a new 802 or similar, you might as well get the matching marine ATU, certainly makes it easier to locate the radio, and less interference and knobs.

But I'm not gonna blow $600 on one just yet. I'm happy to locate my HF at the back of the quarter berth, in a little private radio cave for now, and twiddle the dials like a real sparky, happy in the knowledge that my sensitive hip pocket nerve is not hurting too much.



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Old 27-08-2015, 03:41   #73
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Re: OK, I am HF certified... now what?

OK, time for me to chime in. Having used professionally and recreationally HF tuning units of all kinds for many years (40+), I make the following suggestion.

Fully automatic units like the Icom 140 are foolproof and work very very well as long as they are serviceable. If they fail, you won't fix it on board unless you are a nerd .

Fully manual units are a pain in the butt unless you are an enthusiast but they almost always work very well and can be considered bullet proof.

The best analogy I can think of is comparing a car with automatic transmission with one with a manual gearbox without snychomesh. A real driver can drive either but who wants to double declutch anymore .

Thankfully all the inbetween type of load boxes are irrelevant these days.
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Old 27-08-2015, 03:46   #74
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Re: OK, I am HF certified... now what?

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OK, time for me to chime in. Having used professionally and recreationally HF tuning units of all kinds for many years (40+), I make the following suggestion.

Fully automatic units like the Icom 140 are foolproof and work very very well as long as they are serviceable. If they fail, you won't fix it on board unless you are a nerd .

Fully manual units are a pain in the butt unless you are an enthusiast but they almost always work very well and can be considered bullet proof.

The best analogy I can think of is comparing a car with automatic transmission with one with a manual gearbox without snychomesh. A real driver can drive either but who wants to double declutch anymore .

Thankfully all the inbetween type of load boxes are irrelevant these days.

Well, I'd better be careful about the whole nerd thing... But maybe the answer is to carry a manual tuner as a backup?


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Old 27-08-2015, 03:49   #75
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Re: OK, I am HF certified... now what?

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Well, I'd better be careful about the whole nerd thing... But maybe the answer is to carry a manual tuner as a backup?


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