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Old 25-09-2016, 12:56   #1
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NO more Garmin for me.

I had a used Garmin vision card offered for sale on Amazon, original Garmin card bought at West Marine 3 years ago but no longer needed as boat is sold. I just received the email in red below.

BYE Bye Garmin, never again will I buy your stuff. I really do not appreciate being falsely accuse let alone harassed for selling my own property.

This letter is being written to you on behalf of our
client, Garmin International.

Garmin International is the exclusive owner of all copyright,
trademark and other intellectual property rights in
the Garmin International Software. No one is
authorized to copy, reproduce, distribute, or
otherwise use the software without
the written permission of Garmin International.

It has come to our attention that you are selling/reproducing,
distributing unauthorized copies of Garmin International Software.
We further declare under penalty of perjury that we
are authorized to act on behalf of Garmin International.

Please contact me immediately to discuss this matter
further.

Dennis L. Wilson
Keats McFarland & Wilson LLP
(310) 248-3830
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Old 25-09-2016, 14:07   #2
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Re: NO more Garmin for me.

You see you don't actually own the card or the data on it. You purchased a right to use the card and data on it. That right to use does not grant you the right to sell, trade, reproduce, modify, or improve the card or any of the data on the card.

Given the current state of digital rights very few things that you buy do you actually own. You simply bought the right to use it.

John Deere and GM as well as most software providers have been successful with that argument.

Well I agree it is frustrating but it is the world that we live in. Just don't plan on leaving your iTunes library to your kids.
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Old 25-09-2016, 14:23   #3
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Re: NO more Garmin for me.

I may be missing something but with GPS enabled laptops and tablets of all kinds and brands being dirt cheap for the past decade or so and with Open CPN and practically all of the charts you'll ever need available freely on NOAA site why would anyone still be using that overpriced "private" crap such as Garmin and whatnot. Especially considering that most private re-sellers of charts just repackage/re-color NOAA charts and info, which IMO itself is a theft of major proportions of the taxpayers' paid/owned property.
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Old 25-09-2016, 14:44   #4
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Re: NO more Garmin for me.

My first thought would have been it's a scam of some kind. Are you SURE the sender is really authorized to act on Garmin's behalf? Saying so in an e-mail doesn't carry much weight.

My second thought was who'd want a 3-year old card? But I know, some people don't share my opinion of the value of current charts. I won't get all preachy on that one.

Finally, I have to agree with your opinion of Garmin as a company. They've listed my 3-year-old chartplotter as a "legacy" device and are not issuing any new firmware updates. So even though my SD card has both the (current) chart data AND Active Captain data, my plotter won't display the latter.

I'm quite sure the code base for my device is the same as the newer version, which looks the same and shares most of the same hardware. Garmin apparently thinks I'm going to spend $1,000 to upgrade the hardware just so I can get the latest software.

I think not.

I'll use other software for AC data, each time cursing Garmin under my breath. After a few years of this, who do you think I'll buy from when I finally DO need a new chartplotter?
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Old 25-09-2016, 14:45   #5
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Re: NO more Garmin for me.

I believe NOAA charts only cover US territorial waters? Hardly of use for the rest of us..
Having said that I never understood why Garmin was so popular in the States, as if it was better than anything else, which it is not.
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Old 25-09-2016, 14:58   #6
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Re: NO more Garmin for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikFinn View Post
I believe NOAA charts only cover US territorial waters? Hardly of use for the rest of us..
Having said that I never understood why Garmin was so popular in the States, as if it was better than anything else, which it is not.
The same reason WM stores are "popular". It's called a virtual or almost monopoly. Under cut competition by hook or crook and once the competitors are gone raise the prices and/or lower the quality of your products. Classic case of predatory pricing/marketing.

Doesn't each maritime jurisdiction have its own electronic charts which can be converted to an Open CPN format? I'm pretty sure that NOAA, GB Admiralty and EU charts plus a few larger No. and So. Hemisphere maritime countries would cover most of the world. No?
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Old 25-09-2016, 15:02   #7
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Re: NO more Garmin for me.

I believe that I predicted the end of the traditional chartplotters was soon to come, just like the buggy whip.

Mobile apps allow the transfer of chart data to new devices as you upgrade. I'm still using the charts I purchased from Navionics 6.5 years ago with the annual updates. Only had to pay once, and that was about a tenth of what the European charts would have cost if I purchased the Garmin set.
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Old 25-09-2016, 15:12   #8
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Re: NO more Garmin for me.

in their defense, the !st gen. garmin handheld i bought 6-7 yrs ago still works perfectly, a magellan one i bought a while ago died after 1 year...
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Old 25-09-2016, 15:31   #9
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Re: NO more Garmin for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptTom View Post
My first thought would have been it's a scam of some kind. Are you SURE the sender is really authorized to act on Garmin's behalf? Saying so in an e-mail doesn't carry much weight.

My second thought was who'd want a 3-year old card? But I know, some people don't share my opinion of the value of current charts. I won't get all preachy on that one.

Finally, I have to agree with your opinion of Garmin as a company. They've listed my 3-year-old chartplotter as a "legacy" device and are not issuing any new firmware updates. So even though my SD card has both the (current) chart data AND Active Captain data, my plotter won't display the latter.

I'm quite sure the code base for my device is the same as the newer version, which looks the same and shares most of the same hardware. Garmin apparently thinks I'm going to spend $1,000 to upgrade the hardware just so I can get the latest software.

I think not.

I'll use other software for AC data, each time cursing Garmin under my breath. After a few years of this, who do you think I'll buy from when I finally DO need a new chartplotter?
This is not the navigational chart which in my instance was built in to the plotter (( full USA mapping)this is an add-on vision Blue chart which merely expands on the base chart by adding more depth data and allows the plotter software to suggest a safe route between waypoints taking into account required depths and height clearances set by the user. BUT heck Garmin I can always use it for sledge hammer practice then see if it floats. Maybe I can charge Garmin for the use of MY memory card for 3 years at what $1000/year?.
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Old 25-09-2016, 15:41   #10
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Re: NO more Garmin for me.

Quote:
the 1st gen. garmin handheld i bought 6-7 yrs ago still works perfectly
Yes, their hardware is very reliable. Garmin comes from aviation segment with much higher quality requirements than recreational marine. But as soon as you want to update/extend existing system, you most likely will not be able to do it with their devices sometimes even less than 6 months old. I know because it happened to me, and there are many people on this forum who have and reported the same experience. So, if you know that you will never want to update your system/device, Garmin is good choice, otherwise the worst.
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Old 25-09-2016, 15:46   #11
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Re: NO more Garmin for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charliehows View Post
in their defense, the !st gen. garmin handheld i bought 6-7 yrs ago still works perfectly, a magellan one i bought a while ago died after 1 year...
I have the opposite experience. Handheld Magellan which was given to me as a present in 1998 worked fine for many years. And in fact probably may still work if I find it in my pile of old stuff. On the other hand a Garmin of same vintage which I inherited with the boat 10 years ago has not worked for me from day one, booting up but not being able to find all the satellites. Go figure.

IMO, technology wise Magellan was way ahead of its time and ahead of Garmin but marketing wise probably not so much.
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Old 26-09-2016, 09:11   #12
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Re: NO more Garmin for me.

I understand your anger, however I should point out that this is the way of the world now. I disagree with it but it is unlikely to change in the near future. Someone below correctly pointed out that it is not just with Garmin.

I sell this stuff, and it is not just Garmin that does this. One of the dirty secrets is that a company, any company and not just Garmin, makes a product for three, four or five years then they stop making it. Two or so years later they stop supporting it.

Another big paradigm shift is the software as a service. As someone pointed out, they sell the rights to use software now, not to own it.

There are many reasons for this shift, and in two in particular include the increasing rate of technological advance and the decreasing value of fiat money. As a result, there is an ever more desperate search for yield among the investors.

Long ago I stopped doing every possible update. If a system worked, I just stuck with it. I only do specific updates and only if absolutely needed. I have customers who have systems that are ten, fifteen and even a few with twenty year old systems and they work just fine. If you want the latest and the greatest, you'll pay for it and in more ways than you realize when you buy it.

Moving to Simrad, or Raymarine, or your plotter of choice won't help you in the long run, since they all do it. It is possible that you can explain that you are not reproducing anything nor are you dealing. That may make a difference. Likely it will not. You could also apologize and promise not to do it and sell it somewhere else, and see if that works. Good luck with it.
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Old 26-09-2016, 09:15   #13
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Re: NO more Garmin for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin3 View Post
Dennis L. Wilson
Keats McFarland & Wilson LLP
(310) 248-3830
If you copy and paste the entire name and address into the google search box, you will find many letters written by the same "name" to people in other countries. As some of the receivers of those other letters pointed out, this firm does not have legal rights in other countries around the world.

Also, according to another web article, this firm Keats, McFarland, & Wilson LLP was purchased by another firm in 2013.

In our own personal Garmin experience, the previous owner had installed a new Garmin chart plotter on our boat - and registered everything. We were easily able to get the free SSD card update, even though we were the second "registered" owner of the BlueChart g2 Vision card.

I think this is a scam email. Perhaps you should forward the email to Garmin?
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Old 26-09-2016, 09:24   #14
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Re: NO more Garmin for me.

Surely the first thing to do is to check the small print for the card that you are selling, and confirm that it is legal to sell it.
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Old 26-09-2016, 09:29   #15
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Re: NO more Garmin for me.

They said "unauthorized copy". There are or have been duplicated G2 cards sold on eBay/ amazon. They probably are probably trying to stop this. If you have proof of purchase or registered it I wouldn't worry.


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