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Old 14-02-2016, 15:05   #1
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New electronics

Was just quoted what seemed to me an exorbitant amount of dollars for chart plotter (ray marine a series) with radar and apparently a lot of bells and whistles. Labor alone was $4K. So imagine the rest. Question: pretty handy...can I do myself (boat currently on the hard) And might this job be less expensive say, in Florida ? I know I can cut some corners like smaller size and eliminate the radar....boat currently has nothing but a good compass. Depth, wind and speed are original and work only ocassionally.
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Old 15-02-2016, 03:16   #2
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Re: New electronics

Easy, buy a decent tablet or two and run navionics or opencpn on it. Get a cheap sounder GPS plotter combo unit to replace the dodgy one you have then go sailing. Low install costs and it won't be needing another expensive "upgrade" in three years time.
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Old 15-02-2016, 03:29   #3
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Re: New electronics

With a 1984 Hunter 31, I'd be looking at how/where you (intend to) use it and what electronics you actually need for that purpose. Seems to me that an integrate MFD with Seatalk and all the "bells and whistles" may well be overkill.
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Old 15-02-2016, 05:22   #4
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Re: New electronics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sail debvz View Post
Was just quoted what seemed to me an exorbitant amount of dollars for chart plotter (ray marine a series) with radar and apparently a lot of bells and whistles. Labor alone was $4K. So imagine the rest. Question: pretty handy...can I do myself (boat currently on the hard) And might this job be less expensive say, in Florida ? I know I can cut some corners like smaller size and eliminate the radar....boat currently has nothing but a good compass. Depth, wind and speed are original and work only ocassionally.

Might depend on what you mean by bells and whistles. That could affect cost of individual components, and then almost every time you add a component it comes with additional labor cost.

In addition to radar, maybe VHF? Maybe AIS? Maybe new depth and STW? Maybe new wind sensors? Autopilot? Any redundancy? And so forth... and each of those needs a cable (wiring)...

Labor on our install could be described in several flavors: fiberglass work (for placing and inserting components into the dash), cable pulls/wire runs, mechanical component installation (including autopilot stuff), electrical connections, set-up, sea trial (mostly about autopilot), and user training.

Almost none of that is rocket science, but good glass work takes time, pulling cables is often a two-person job, network set-up would have taken me 4x longer (on that first upgrade) than it took my installers, etc.

I could have saved money by pulling all the cables myself... except I would have needed help on that anyway, as it turned out. I could have been "the second man" on their crew and that could have saved a bit.

OTOH, I didn't have time -- at the time -- to donate to that project, so it ended up being a painless week. Nice boat ride to their place, left the boat there, did the sea-trial and training at the end of that week, got my training, and enjoyed a nice boat ride back home. No struggling, no bleeding, no physical strain, back or neck pain, etc...


FWIW, when I started that project... first I did a "market survey" of sorts, asking boatloads of nearby boaters for their recommendations about local/semi-local sellers/installers. Three companies bubbled to the top of that. Then I approached all three with what was essentially a Request for Proposal (RFP) -- told them what I had, what I wanted to keep, generally what I wanted to end up with. Of those, after discussion with each, I selected the guys who came closest to my concept, and who seemed easiest to work with. Their pricing was about in the middle of the three. They were also the furthest away (boat ride). Turned out well.

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Old 15-02-2016, 09:34   #5
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Re: New electronics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sail debvz View Post
Was just quoted what seemed to me an exorbitant amount of dollars for chart plotter (ray marine a series) with radar and apparently a lot of bells and whistles. Labor alone was $4K. So imagine the rest. Question: pretty handy...can I do myself (boat currently on the hard) And might this job be less expensive say, in Florida ? I know I can cut some corners like smaller size and eliminate the radar....boat currently has nothing but a good compass. Depth, wind and speed are original and work only ocassionally.
4K to install sounds like they are taking the piss and if they quote that for the install, then they are probably offering sucker prices for the hardware.

Shop around online and local stores to see the best prices and plan to fit as much as you can yourself.

Skip the radar unless you know exactly why you need one. Get a 7 inch a-series MFD unless you really desire bigger.

Install as much as you can as none of the installation requires a rocket scientist and where you are unsure, prepare as much as you can before you pay for outside help.
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Old 15-02-2016, 16:39   #6
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Re: New electronics

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
4K to install sounds like they are taking the piss and if they quote that for the install, then they are probably offering sucker prices for the hardware.

Shop around online and local stores to see the best prices and plan to fit as much as you can yourself.

Skip the radar unless you know exactly why you need one. Get a 7 inch a-series MFD unless you really desire bigger.

Install as much as you can as none of the installation requires a rocket scientist and where you are unsure, prepare as much as you can before you pay for outside help.
Small world as I am also upgrading our newly acquired boat and the labor quote was $4K. I could save a lot of money doing the install myself but I gain one year on the warranty by having a certified installer do the work. I also get my own OTTC (one throat to choke) as my old manager used to say. Anything goes wrong and I can call the installer to have them fix the problem during the first year. I also get a sea trial and some instruction for using the new gizmos. If I was 30 years old I would do the install myself and keep a little $$$ in reserve in case I need someone to troubleshoot a problem.
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Old 15-02-2016, 16:44   #7
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Re: New electronics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sail debvz View Post
Was just quoted what seemed to me an exorbitant amount of dollars for chart plotter (ray marine a series) with radar and apparently a lot of bells and whistles. Labor alone was $4K. So imagine the rest. Question: pretty handy...can I do myself (boat currently on the hard) And might this job be less expensive say, in Florida ? I know I can cut some corners like smaller size and eliminate the radar....boat currently has nothing but a good compass. Depth, wind and speed are original and work only ocassionally.

Here is what I am getting for my boat. Total price is $11k, labor alone is $4k. All
B&G components.

Zeus2 7 at the helm in a Navpod 4406
4G radar on backstay
GPS antenna
AIS transceiver
Wifi module
Splitter for AIS to VHF antenna
Rudder sensor
Maretron cabling
Installation blueprints
Short test sail
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Old 15-02-2016, 17:03   #8
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Re: New electronics

I recently replaced all my electronics myself using Raymarine equipment. I got a C97, a new autopilot minus the hydraulic pump(already had a compatible pump) with a P70 control head, an I70 with wind speed and depth, and a new radar(standard definition). I already had a compatible mount for the radar. I made my own instrument panel out of a sheet of starboard. I did it all for less than $6000. The only compromise was a re-manufactured C97 but it had the same warranty as a new one. The installation was very straight forward, just be sure to read the instructions. I did have some help with the wire pulling, but nothing was technically difficult, I just followed the instructions. The electronics are basically plug and play with Seatalkng. The only thing I had to wire in were the NMEA 0183 connections to my radios and the power wires. Installation took me three days, most of which was consumed by the wire pulling.
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Old 15-02-2016, 17:16   #9
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Re: New electronics

I'm on a cheap mission for my boat. I just keep an eye out for clearance sales and good used bargains (don't want to over-capitalize, lol). Scored an almost new autopilot and unused Octopus ram for less than half street price, went with a runout B&G Zeus 7", picked up a used IC710 HF cheap, got my IS20 instrument package on special and will go with 3G radar rather than 4G. In fact, by being in no great rush I just buy stuff and store it away until ready to bolt in, which I do myself.
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Old 15-02-2016, 18:33   #10
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Re: New electronics

It's that time of year again in Canada Starting the list of work to do to the boat.I too am looking to install all new electronic and autohelm,linear drive below the cockpit all Ray marine, Radar will be installed on a 10 foot pole on the stern new MFD Approx 7500$ for equipment .i will install most of it and pay the $120 per hr to ensure its hooked up correctly. Question. Can I install the wind instruments on the stern pole as well rather than on the mast.
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Old 15-02-2016, 18:42   #11
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Re: New electronics

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It's that time of year again in Canada Starting the list of work to do to the boat.I too am looking to install all new electronic and autohelm,linear drive below the cockpit all Ray marine, Radar will be installed on a 10 foot pole on the stern new MFD Approx 7500$ for equipment .i will install most of it and pay the $120 per hr to ensure its hooked up correctly. Question. Can I install the wind instruments on the stern pole as well rather than on the mast.
I've seen it done, but you'd need to make sure air flow and direction isn't altered by the sails. I'm not 100% sure that would be possible on many boats.
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Old 16-02-2016, 16:44   #12
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Re: New electronics

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I've seen it done, but you'd need to make sure air flow and direction isn't altered by the sails. I'm not 100% sure that would be possible on many boats.
I have never seen them anywhere other than at the top of the mast. If you are going upwind the airflow will be altered much of the time.
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Old 16-02-2016, 17:11   #13
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Re: New electronics

I wouldn't do it personally, but I've seen them mounted at the back. Whether they work or not is another matter.

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Old 17-02-2016, 02:23   #14
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Re: New electronics

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
I wouldn't do it personally, but I've seen them mounted at the back. Whether they work or not is another matter.

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Old 18-02-2016, 11:35   #15
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Re: New electronics

Sail debvz,
YES!
Yes, you can do this yourself!!
(see below, provide us with more details, and we can certainly help! for FREE!!)


1) Since we don't know what all the "bells and whistles" are, nor what else they may be doing, it's very difficult to judge whether or not $4000 labor is excessive...
But, yes, it does seem like at the high-end of what would be "normal"...


2) Regardless, in my > 40 years of electronics experience, including installing/using/troubleshooting marine electronics over the past 40+ years, and running my own electronics firm (not marine electronics!) for > 30 years, etc., I can tell you a few facts of life and give you some sage advice regarding marine electronics...

a) It is the installation, wiring, connection(s), weatherproofing, commissioning, programming, and customer education, that allows things to work properly and reliably, and last a long time!!!

b) The newer, fancier, more complex, the "system"....the more fact "a" hold true!!!
{in fact, basic/inexpensive equipment that is properly installed, etc....will always work better, last longer, and make the owner much happier, than the most expensive / highest-tech units, that have been poorly installed!!!}

c) Most yacht manufacturers (and surprisingly, many of the dealers as well), are NOT very good at the above!!
They're good at fiberglass, rigging, etc...and great at selling....but not so good when it comes to electronics installs/commissioning, etc...
(although most do get the wiring in okay, most don't do much else any better than a trained monkey....and many not even that good!)

So, if you are getting a high-quality installation, wiring, programming, commissioning, and education...along with $???? worth of marine electronics, then $4000 labor costs are not exorbitant.
BUT...

But, understand that you CAN install all of this yourself, and save a LOT of $$$$!!
As long as you follow all the instructions to the letter (NO short-cuts), take advice only from those who actually know what they are doing (be careful here!), and use all the proper materials, you will be fine!
(this is not rocket science!)


3) Please don't cut corners....buy less stuff, if budget requires, but don't cut corners!!



Please advise with more details and we can help!


Fair winds...

John
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