Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-04-2014, 15:44   #1
Registered User
 
Roy M's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Southwestern Yacht Club, San Diego, CA
Boat: Searunner 40 trimaran, WILDERNESS
Posts: 3,175
Images: 4
New Advances in Forward Looking Sonar

Panbo has an update on forward looking sonar:
Panbo: The Marine Electronics Hub: Simrad ForwardScan, a challenge to EchoPilot FLS?
Roy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2014, 17:38   #2
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,822
Images: 25
Re: New advances in forward looking sonar

You notice in the screen shots they are only showing you 8 meters in front of you?
The max one was 25 meters.

There was one photo showing the boat going at 6 knots with an obstruction 30 meters in front. Sorry! But thats too late!

Its ok when you are coming into a marina... But thats all.
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2014, 17:45   #3
Registered User
 
gamayun's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oakland, CA
Boat: Freedom 38
Posts: 2,503
Re: New advances in forward looking sonar

This will be cool -- eventually. If the sonars could be tweaked to focus only on the first 20 feet of the water column and if they could sound a collision alarm like they do in planes if objects are greater than a certain specified size (I'm thinking a "large" log, for example), then this has promise. But having to keep your eyes glued on a screen, interpreting signals from all sorts of floating objects such as birds, and getting lots of bottom info you don't need, seems tedious and not very useful.
gamayun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2014, 17:56   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 16,306
Re: New advances in forward looking sonar

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
You notice in the screen shots they are only showing you 8 meters in front of you?
The max one was 25 meters.

There was one photo showing the boat going at 6 knots with an obstruction 30 meters in front. Sorry! But thats too late!

Its ok when you are coming into a marina... But thats all.
30 meters at 6 kts. That would give you about 9 seconds to dodge, plenty of time unless you are getting old and slow.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2014, 20:22   #5
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: 1987 Cabo Rico 38 #117 (sold) & 2008 Manta 42 #124
Posts: 4,172
Re: New advances in forward looking sonar

9 Seconds is plenty of time to steer back into the ICW groove.
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2014, 02:37   #6
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,151
Re: New advances in forward looking sonar

From the data provided I can't see any improvement over the old Interphase Probe that has been around since 1996 at least (when I bought my firs one). I know that Interphase was bought up by (I think) Ray marine, and that they are no longer on the market, but they were always better than the similarly priced Echo Pilot models that I saw in use.

Wonder what is going on in this market place?

Cheers,

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2014, 03:58   #7
Registered User
 
IslandHopper's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bundaberg, Qld.
Posts: 2,192
Re: New advances in forward looking sonar

You could always go with one of these units, Forward Looking Navigation Sonars for Obstacle Avoidance | FarSounder unfortunately the price is in the range that only a Super yacht or commercial ship owner could absorb, plus the transducer has about the same dimensions as a medium sized microwave oven...
IslandHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2014, 06:13   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 16,306
Re: New advances in forward looking sonar

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
9 Seconds is plenty of time to steer back into the ICW groove.
Certainly if you are standing at the helm in the ICW and drift to one side of the channel that 9 seconds would be enough time to alter course to get back to center channel.

But consider a boat at sea, under sail, self steering and sonar detects an obstruction dead ahead. Unless you were sitting at the helm with your hand on the wheel ready to dodge immediately, 9 seconds would be nothing. Even if you were sitting at the helm; to see an obstruction on the sonar, confirm what it is, decide to dodge left or right and actually alter course far enough to clear would be unlikely.

Never had the chance to use or even look at one of these but the general conclusion from those that have is they are useful at slow speed in calm water to spot obstructions or shallow areas, but at higher speeds and especially in any kind of seas the benefit is minimal if any at all.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2014, 08:02   #9
Registered User
 
Roy M's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Southwestern Yacht Club, San Diego, CA
Boat: Searunner 40 trimaran, WILDERNESS
Posts: 3,175
Images: 4
Re: New advances in forward looking sonar

Ease off folks. FLS range is dependant on depth. I have an Interphase SE200C that provides only about 100 feet of range inside the 20 foot deep harbor, and as much as a 1000 in blue water. It was Garmin that bought out Interphase, but Simrad has beat them to market with a new unit. This is only the beginning of a new series of FLS units with superior resolution and features than what we have seen to date. Or, you can pass it off as a temporary fad, kind of like multihulls, flying machines, and Dick Tracy wrist communicators. Personally, I'm happy with my current, low tech unit, and will be even happier when the new ones come out. I merely brought this to your attention to inform some of you of the coming technology, not to sway the unconverted minds.
Roy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2014, 08:34   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 16,306
Re: New advances in forward looking sonar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy M View Post
Ease off folks. FLS range is dependant on depth. I have an Interphase SE200C that provides only about 100 feet of range inside the 20 foot deep harbor, and as much as a 1000 in blue water. It was Garmin that bought out Interphase, but Simrad has beat them to market with a new unit. This is only the beginning of a new series of FLS units with superior resolution and features than what we have seen to date. Or, you can pass it off as a temporary fad, kind of like multihulls, flying machines, and Dick Tracy wrist communicators. Personally, I'm happy with my current, low tech unit, and will be even happier when the new ones come out. I merely brought this to your attention to inform some of you of the coming technology, not to sway the unconverted minds.
Sorry, I haven't seen any previous posts on this thread that are not easy.

I am pretty sure that there is no misunderstanding about the depth dependence of forward looking sonars. After all, it's just basic geometry.

Sailing in deep water and approaching a shoal you would get plenty of range and warning. However in shallow water the range will be quite limited and you will get very little warning if the depth drops from say 8' to 4' or say from 4' to 2' which would put even most catamarans aground. Extrapolating from your example of 100' range in 20' depth then in 8' of water you might get a 40' range or 20' range in 4' depth. That's not much.

The other issue is a lot of cruisers are looking for something that would give warning for a floating hazard like deadheads or shipping containers. In that situation forward looking sonar, from all reports, offers little to no assistance.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2014, 08:47   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,983
Re: New advances in forward looking sonar

So could they pick up a partial sunken container??
robert sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2014, 08:57   #12
Registered User
 
Randy's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Diego
Boat: Farrier f27
Posts: 704
Re: New advances in forward looking sonar

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
You notice in the screen shots they are only showing you 8 meters in front of you?
The max one was 25 meters.

There was one photo showing the boat going at 6 knots with an obstruction 30 meters in front. Sorry! But thats too late!

Its ok when you are coming into a marina... But thats all.
Exactly! The thought of using this as early warning for obstructions in front of a boat is nice but fantasy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Randy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2014, 10:19   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 16,306
Re: New advances in forward looking sonar

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
So could they pick up a partial sunken container??
Sure. You will pick up the container about a nanosecond before you hear the loud crash.

Seriously, you might get a few seconds warning or none at all, depending on the sea state at the time. A partially submerged container might sit 8-10' down in the water. If the seas are running 4-5' the pitching of the boat, and the container rising and falling in the waves plus all the surface turbulence the chance of getting any significant warning of a floating container are pretty much nil.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2014, 10:20   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 16,306
Re: New advances in forward looking sonar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy View Post
Exactly! The thought of using this as early warning for obstructions in front of a boat is nice but fantasy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2014, 15:41   #15
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,151
Re: New Advances in Forward Looking Sonar

FWIW,

I have now used an Interphase Probe for nearly twenty years. During this time we have been cruising in many areas of the SW Pacific, and many of these areas are poorly charted.

I have found the Probe to be very useful in entering strange anchorages, especially under poor visibility conditions or at night. They are not useful for avoiding floating containers or other such hazards... no question about that! But for slow speed exploration of unfamiliar waters they are VERY useful, at least in our cruising experience, and it has kept us off uncharted and invisible shoals more than once. IMO, even once paid for the instrument well and truly.

I was disappointed to find that in the situation where one is following a shallow channel, and worried about it going from just enough to float to not quite enough to float... well, jsut as the naysayers think, not very much use, for the resolution isn't good enough.

If I was to comision a new cruising yacht, I would definitely fit some sort of FLS. It would be great if further improvements in the technology came through to us yotties who can't afford the 10k$+ versions.

Cheers,

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Interphase Forward-Looking Sonar Rob 1936 Product or Service Reviews & Evaluations 21 05-06-2018 15:28
Interphase vs Echo Pilot Forward-Looking Sonar sailingmonica Product or Service Reviews & Evaluations 12 03-10-2014 17:55
For Sale: Forward looking sonar Atraxia Classifieds Archive 2 02-03-2013 08:42
Forward-Looking Sonar Interference yachtdaemon Construction, Maintenance & Refit 3 05-09-2009 08:14
Just Ordered an Interphase v90 Forward-Looking-Sonar Unit Latitude9.5 Marine Electronics 11 26-08-2009 14:55

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:22.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.